Bear spray mounted to big bore AR?

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bhhacker

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I just saw an ad showing a rail mounted pepper spray system and thought that that accessory would be great for encounters with 4 legged critters. You have the ability to have lethal and non lethal options. I would be getting this only for woods use, not for people, so i wouldnt worry about pointing a loaded firearm at someone without the intention of shooting.


I would want it to spray a lot further. Think bear spray vs. pepper spray in terms of range.

Is there such a thing? When i look up bear spray on rail system im only finding this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ITGNX1Yq4
 
If a critter capable of killing you rather quickly was coming your way and already in pepper range, wonder just how many of us could hit the pepper switch first?
 
It depends really. I have been very close to bears and not felt the need to unload my firearm on them. The key is picking up if they are offensive or defensive responses and acting accordingly.

I just feel like if you had both at your disposal and were able to have both trained on the animal at in the same instance it would save time.

51Sjbg2BM5L.01_SL500_.jpg


While probably not for everyone, it is a lot easier to carry a rifle on a sling than to carry a rifle and a bear spray can (they are kind of big). It gives you options.
 
How is it that you're so educated that you know the difference between these two responses? If they are so close bear spray is an option, its probably too late, not for the spray, but the shooting to commence. Best leave the stuff on the store shelf.
 
I've got some bear spray. It's called a S&W .500 magnum stoked with 440 grain LSWC hard cast hand loaded to 1,600 fps! Just one "blast" and NO bear will continue coming!
 
bhhacker said:
I just saw an ad showing a rail mounted pepper spray system and thought that that accessory would be great for encounters with 4 legged critters. You have the ability to have lethal and non lethal options. I would be getting this only for woods use, not for people, so i wouldnt worry about pointing a loaded firearm at someone without the intention of shooting.


I would want it to spray a lot further. Think bear spray vs. pepper spray in terms of range.

Is there such a thing? When i look up bear spray on rail system im only finding this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ITGNX1Yq4
Click to expand...

Personally, I would not be interested in something that could end up all over me if the wind shifts mid-spray. You need to get far too close to the animal to use these things. Wildlife officers will generally use less-than-lethal rounds from a 12 gauge for this reason...so they have stand-off distance.

I don't want to harass big critters unless I need to. If I'm going to put one in my cross-hairs, I'm going to do it to save my life, and I'm going to hit them with a sledgehammer.
 
Before you ever try to deploy pepper spray outdoors in a real self defense situation, please buy an extra can and test it.

On the day when you think "there's hardly any wind," you will find out otherwise when you trigger that spray.

Then find a smooth(ish) surface, and have somebody roll a ball at you.
Try to spray the ball.
How much of your discharge even hit the ball?
How close to the ball did you have to be in order to hit it with even 20% of your discharge.

You like those odds against even a small, mean dog?
Against an animal that outweighs you by at least double, and out-means you by an astronomical factor?

Pepper spray against bears: a deadly joke
 
Wow! So many comments about pepper, like its a brand new idea that nobody has ever actually tried in real life, and totally dismiss as a stupid idea.

It seems to work fairly well in many cases. I wouldn't care to have it as my only choice, but think its a good option to have handy.

And yes, those that have been around bears much can tell quite a bit about their body language, rather than just blasting any bear that happens to get within their imagined comfort zone. For those that haven't done it in real life (which I'm guessing includes most that comment in bear threads), shooting bears tends to create both a lot of hard work and legal questions. In AK you have to skin the bear and turn it in to the State along with your report of why you had to kill it in in defense of life or property, in the lower 48, it gets way more complicated legally. Sometimes shooting bears doesn't result in the expected reaction also, creating some medical issues. Not all bears are trying to eat you when they come around, even when they may act a bit huffy.

Originally posted by kilibreaux
I've got some bear spray. It's called a S&W .500 magnum stoked with 440 grain LSWC hard cast hand loaded to 1,600 fps! Just one "blast" and NO bear will continue coming!
Click to expand...

Cool! Where are you getting your magic bullets? Have you shot a lot of bears with them? Sounds like they are awesome! Sounds like they may even be self guided.
 
Malamute said:
Wow! So many comments about pepper, like its a brand new idea that nobody has ever actually tried in real life, and totally dismiss as a stupid idea.

It seems to work fairly well in many cases. I wouldn't care to have it as my only choice, but think its a good option to have handy.

And yes, those that have been around bears much can tell quite a bit about their body language, rather than just blasting any bear that happens to get within their imagined comfort zone. For those that haven't done it in real life (which I'm guessing includes most that comment in bear threads), shooting bears tends to create both a lot of hard work and legal questions. In AK you have to skin the bear and turn it in to the State along with your report of why you had to kill it in in defense of life or property, in the lower 48, it gets way more complicated legally. Sometimes shooting bears doesn't result in the expected reaction also, creating some medical issues. Not all bears are trying to eat you when they come around, even when they may act a bit huffy.



Cool! Where are you getting your magic bullets? Have you shot a lot of bears with them? Sounds like they are awesome! Sounds like they may even be self guided.
Click to expand...

:evil:
 
I got bluff charged by a bear while hiking. It is very quick and very confusing all at once. I think it would be hard to make an assessment or decision in that time frame as to whether to go pepper or lead without a lot of practice. Kind of seems like one more thing to fumble with which makes it less likely you would use either adeptly.
 
eldon519 said:
I got bluff charged by a bear while hiking. It is very quick and very confusing all at once. I think it would be hard to make an assessment or decision in that time frame as to whether to go pepper or lead without a lot of practice. Kind of seems like one more thing to fumble with which makes it less likely you would use either adeptly.
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So if I understand you correctly, you'd rather be judged by 12 than eaten by one bear?
 
It's funny. In all the "is this enough gun for bear" threads the common advice is use pepper spray. Now that someone is talking about pepper spray suddenly the 500SW is all you need and no one apparently has the experience to judge a bear's behavior.
 
Torian, I didn't really say anything like that or address that philosophy at all. Not sure where you got that. I was just pointing out that there isn't as much time to make decisions as one might imagine.
 
I got bluff charged by a bear while hiking. It is very quick and very confusing all at once. I think it would be hard to make an assessment or decision in that time frame as to whether to go pepper or lead without a lot of practice. Kind of seems like one more thing to fumble with which makes it less likely you would use either adeptly.
Click to expand...

How old was the bear? Was it a black or a grizzly?

Were its ears forward or laid back?
 
It was a black, an older female with some grey on the muzzle protecting her cub. I don't recall the ear position.
 
Ive had many bear encounters and they specifically train and inform you in alaska about bear behaviors as they are everywhere.

Blasting one just because you walked up on one eating blueberries is not the answer :p Shooting a bear up here DOES create a lot of paperwork, in fact, i have friends that have brown and blackbear tags each year not with the intent of hunting them, but if they have to kill one in self defense its much easier to have a tag and just call it hunted than self defense.


I have had quite a few bear encounters and only one that was offensive behavior. The hairs on my neck helped me out. It was on all fours crouched down and was walking towards me like a cat getting ready to pounce. It was close. VERY close. It was not charging. In that scenario i could have used some bear spray. I think that using a rifle or pepper spray one is not better than the other, it just depends on the circumstances and specific situation.


For the people that say one or the other because its just another thing to fumble, i dont want to sound rude but if you cant chew gum and walk at the same time you might want to hang out on the porch :p

I train a lot for defensive shooting be it people or critters. I just want the less than lethal option and this seemed like a good idea except bear spray tends to shoot a lot further than 20 feet.


I bet you a lot of people would never think to carry an air horn for bear defense either but when you use one and the bear craps all over itself and runs away id consider that to be pretty sucessful. :p
 
For the people that say one or the other because its just another thing to fumble, i dont want to sound rude but if you cant chew gum and walk at the same time you might want to hang out on the porch :p
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Well when you actually experience a charge, let me know if that is still your opinion. Think Tueller Drill but with no warning or awareness that the situation is dangerous and your hands full of trekking poles with wrist loops no less and since we are talking an AR-15, presumably a slung weapon. Honestly, if it were a real charge and I had an AR-15 in my situation, I would have been lucky to even have gotten a shot off given the circumstances under which it occurred. Let alone trying to decide to fire off my M203-esque bear spray or pull the bang switch. It isn't like you are walking through the woods gun in hand patrolling for bears with a mindset ready for action; I was walking along chatting happily with my hiking partner with my hands occupied.

I'm no bear whisperer, but I've come across about 25 in the wild that I recall. I can think of four occasions where I found myself within 25yds or less; two of those being browns. The vast majority of the time, they bolted when they figured out I was there without so much as having to yell. I could see how in some of those situations, were one to have turned aggressive, I might have been able to see it coming and prepare accordingly. With the bluff charge I experienced, it busted out of the woods way too close to take almost any kind of action. Had it been necessary to defend myself, simplicity and accessibility would have been paramount.
 
Well when you actually experience a charge, let me know if that is still your opinion. Think Tueller Drill but with no warning or awareness that the situation is dangerous and your hands full of trekking poles with wrist loops no less and since we are talking an AR-15, presumably a slung weapon.
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You have a point. Of course, a LOT of bear attacks are not without warning and people often have ample time to prepare, but not ample resources at their disposal for which to mount a good defense. By a lot of time, we are talking anywhere from a few seconds (enough to unsling a rifle) to minutes. There are surprise or unexpected encounters for which nobody has much time for anything and it sometimes does not matter what weapons you do or do not have. The most common of these are where people literally collide with bears on trails, hunters going after wounded bears they have lost sight of, etc.

Bear sprays have worked in the past and they have failed in the past. Firearms have worked and firearms have failed. When it comes to something like bears, I am not sure I want so many defensive tools in one package. You don't always want to have your gun on your person, or can't, which is the nature of actually working in the brush, but you can usually keep a can of spray on your person much more easily.

I don't see bhhacker putting an air horn on his rifle, LOL.
 
Honestly I think it sounds like a great idea, but it seems like if you had THAT much of a legitimate concern about bears, simply going someplace else would be a better idea.
 
It isn't so much an issue of concern, but an issue of reality. Human-bear conflict happens across many states and Canada with regularity. The concern is fully legitimate, though the frequency of event on a per capita basis may be low. In other words, these happen with low frequency but high probability and significant consequences. When they result in physical contact between the human and the bear, there is almost always a trip to the hospital involved for the human and more often than not, an overnight visit.
 
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