Beretta 1951/ Helwan clone

[USAF_Vet]

I'll be going to my LGS soon to trade off an unused Crickett .22, and looking at their inventory, I see a Helwan 9mm for what, to me, apears to be a reasonable price of $199. This LGS has always treated me well on trade in value for used guns, so I can expect around $80, give or take, for this little Crickett in trade.

Anyway, back to the Helwan, I see they are a copy of the Beretta 1951, and used by the Egyptian military as a side arm.

I'm thinking of picking it up as a knock around gun, something cheap that I won't be devastated if it gets lost, stolen, broken, etc. I'm hoping for it to be reliable enough to stick into the CC rotation, or just oil it up, stick it in a vacuum sealed bag and toss it in a bug out bag.

Anyone have one? Thoughts? Reports would be most welcome. Value?

I see the early contract ones were made by Beretta, but later production moved to Egypt and produced by Maadi.

It's a neat looking gun, and I definitely see some design features that would appear in the 92.

Nice looking full size single stack 9mm pistol. Is there any reason not to get it?

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

I had one a few years back, it worked fine but very poorly finished. Far below eastern block countries let alone western countries.

 

[Redcoat3340]

I'd hesitate about doing that. I have an original Beretta 1951 and love it. It's a great gun and it fits in nicely between my Walther P38/P6 and the Beretta 92. It's an evolutionary design.

Now, about the Helwans. Problem with them is uncertainty. There were a lot of bad ones made (soft steel has been reported, substandard workmanship, they got shot hard and were poorly taken care of. The rumor was that when they were captured by the Israelis, [and most reaching the market are Israeli surplus] the Israelis used very hot submachine gun 9mm stuff in them and shot 'em to pieces.) There were a couple of different importers...some brought in good ones, some junk.

Further, there are two different grades....one made for the military and the other a commercial grade. The military ones might have been badly beaten up but might be alright; the commercial ones very poorly made.

The real problem is: unless you do a TON of research, it's almost impossible to tell the difference and get a good one.

I did a bunch of research, and came to the conclusion that even for a couple of hundred bucks, it wasn't worth the risk. It was just too hard to tell the wheat from the chaff....what with some guns having even been scrubbed of all markings that might have helped tell which was which.

My advice is, if you like the gun, double down and look for a Beretta 951....I got mine for about $400 (and probably overpaid a bit, but I really wanted it and it was CLEAN!!)

There are a bunch of other 9mm that fit your bill....CDI has three FEG Hi Power clones listed on Gunbroker. These are great guns; excellent manufacture, classic HiPower design; reasonable priced at under $250; and CDI can be trusted. (I've purchased five guns from them , one an FEG, and all have been better than advertised.) They also have a Daewoo and a bunch of Taurus 92's under $300.) I'd check them out before I bought a Helwan.

Here's the link: http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=2621012&mfg=1000108

 

[dogmush]

Sarco is also listing real Beretta 1951's on their site for about $350 right now.

 

[bannockburn]

I have heard pretty much the same things Redcoat3340 touched upon: inconsistent heat treatment, indifferent build quality, overall poor fit and finish, and general lack of proper maintenance make them a less than desirable choice versus spending the extra money for a Beretta Model 1951.

 

[Monac]

My recollection is that a lot of the Helwans came in about 20 years ago. There were also a lot of Tokarevs hitting the market in 9mm then. My general impression from what I read was that the Helwans were a more elegant design, but the Tokarevs actually worked better.

I haven't seen a new Helwan for years and years. I wondered why they stopped coming in.

 

[Redcoat3340]

No more Helwans because they stopped making them.

Beretta made the original 1951 on spec for its military, but the Italian army didn't bite. I think the national police might have bought some and maybe the Navy. They then made them commercially.

Egypt then contracted Beretta to make a bunch and Beretta did and shipped them to the land of the pyramid. (Buying an Egyptian Beretta-made 1951 is a safe bet, but they are rare.)

Egypt then licensed manufacture of them from Beretta, may even have bought/moved the tooling and put the Helwan label on them. Those are the ones I'd personally stay away from.

I'll pitch the FEG Browning Hi Powers again. Look 'em up on the interwebs...classic Hi Power at a third the price.

There's some confusion about these as well, as there have been a couple of importers, names were/weren't changed when designes were changed, etc. Here's the place to get straightened out....it's a fun read as well and a bit of insight into the gun biz:

http://www.amazon.com/DECODING-FÉG-...-1-fkmr0&keywords=feg+browning+hi+power+facts

 

[RON in PA]

I bought a Helwan many years ago. Total piece of garbage that did not fire when the trigger was pulled. Avoid like the plague.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Sorry to differ, but mine has worked flawlessly. I had never heard about the steel problems, but it hasn't broken apart in my hands yet. It is, however, just a run-of-the-mill 9 mm.