Beretta PX4F vs. SW M&P

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It is amusing that you criticize a "sample of one" when that is what everyone raves about over on ToddG's worship site of the HK P30. I guess some people are easily impressed when they want to positively adopt the same flimsy level of proof they use to reject the things they don't want. After all, using samples of one, the HK P30 is God's gift to handgunnery and by comparison the M&P a piece of dreck that became unsafe to fire in just over half as many rounds down range.

This is not to mention that we're talking, from his past writings about the PX-4's development, about a likely disgruntled ex-employee of Beretta, one who is in fact spreading anecdotal "information," and who could, but does not, acquire a PX-4 and try to take it to 100k rounds himself to show the world what garbage it is.

Where's that grain of salt at? Oh yeah, next to the mallet I have never needed when firing a PX-4, any more than I have needed the JB Weld for the ejection window cracking on my M&P 9's slide.
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So now you are questioning a well respected firearms instructors integrity with nothing to back it up. I wasn't aware that kind of stuff passed as "high road" although I admittedly haven't been around in a while so perhaps standards have slipped.

He has seen more than a sample of one for starters (read where he went to train Canadian police). Also, as to the P30 being a sample of one, anyone who is actually concerned about their firearm being reliable is not going to just see his sample and call it good to go. They are going to look for the opinions of trainers such as LAV and others in the industry and see what they have to say about them. When these trainers say that a firearm is gtg, it is after seeing many more samples than any of us ever will. Also, look into which police forces have adopted which firearm. When the only major departments to adopt the PX4 dump it because of its reliability issues, that is called a clue.

So what your post boils down to is challenging without reason a person's integrity, attacking my comment about a sample of one with a complete strawman, and overall just sour grapes that the handgun you are trying to defend has proven to be an unreliable design.
 
Anecdotal is anecdotal, learn to live with it. However, your appeal to "authority" is duly noted but it hasn't served to make either mine nor Lonestar's pistols "unreliable."

As "agencies" are filled to overflowing with people who barely know which is the business end of a pistol, I'll remain unimpressed by who adopts what and continue to rely wholly upon my own experience with a firearm, no matter who makes it.
 
As "agencies" are filled to overflowing with people who barely know which is the business end of a pistol, I'll remain unimpressed by who adopts what and continue to rely wholly upon my own experience with a firearm, no matter who makes it.
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When speaking of state and federal agencies, this comment doesn't apply.

It's old news - that was then, 5yr - 6yrs ago, this is now..

Simple as it gets
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So if that is the case, please point me to something which shows that Beretta has actually changed the design in the last two years?

So Rancidsumo, how long have you had your PX4
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I don't buy **** guns. I did however have a friend who owned one and his experiences with it align perfectly with those of experienced trainers and police agencies. In other word, the gun was garbage.
 
To the OP:
I think either the m&p or px4 will serve you very well. I have the px4 and love it. It is reliable, durable, and accurate. The m&p is going to give the same amount of reliability, durability, and accuracy. You are going to have to make your choice on the 2 based on ergonomics and trigger type.

You already mentioned you like the DA/SA capability so maybe you are leaning toward the beretta. Either way though, you cant pick one over the other without deciding on trigger first. I like hammers, and DA/SA so the px4 is a great option.


To the folks flaming the px4:
I dont understand this at all. Everything I have read on the px4 has been positive. Even the links posted earlier in this thread as examples to stay away from the px4 show that people who ACTUALLY own one like it with very few exceptions. Combine that with my sample of one experience and I gotta say I am pretty high on the px4. I dont know how the px4 would do in a torture test or a test like the M9 went through to win the military service contract, but I have no evidence it would do any worse than its competition.

And finally I have to comment on the rationale of only using guns that LEOs use...
I guess with that thought process; CZs, XD, XDm, sig 2022, HKp30, glock 20 and more would all be unacceptable. Right?
 
M&P

I like the M&Ps better than any other Polymer pistols that I've shot. I've shot HKs (USP, USPc, P30), Sigs (2022), Glocks (17, 19, and 22), XDs (XD9, XD45), XDms (9mm), and Berettas (9 mm).

The M&P is a more proven design. It is durable, reliable, and extremely accurate. With it's low bore axis and erognomic grips, the M&Ps are one of the lightest recoiling pistols in their class. I believe this to be true, but I've also seen multiple gun reviews that stated the same thing. I also like the stainless barrel, slide, and the stainless chasis that supports and strengthens the frame.

The PX4 is really about my sixth favorite polymer pistol design. I really disliked the balance and really don't think that the rotating barrel is very effective at taming the recoil. The gun has a lot more muzzle flip than an M&P or a Glock. I've shot them side-by-side-by-side.

I've only shot the PX4 in 9mm, but I've shot one two different times. The first time, I wasn't impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think they are pretty nice, but there are other polymer guns that I prefer. The second time, I wanted to give it one more try before I disqualified it for my collection. I also don't like the bruniton finish.

I love the Beretta 92 series, but I've never warmed up to the PX4 storm. I'd get a inox Beretta 92, but I'd never buy a PX4 storm.
 
Maryland State Police issue the Px4 in. 40. Just for people who are unaware. Take that for what its worth. Probably nothing.
 
I have a Sigma VE 9mm that I have done a trigger job on. It's a lot smoother but still heavy. My daughter's future husband just got out of the army. He bought a PX4 and pop's out shot him with his lowly Sigma. The PX4 seems like a answer to a problem that does not exists.

I am impressed with the M&P Series. So much so I went a bought a .45acp FS. The pistol is a great combat weapon right out of the box.

There is no way I would dump my Sigma for a PX4.
 
I have a Sigma VE 9mm that I have done a trigger job on. It's a lot smoother but still heavy. My daughter's future husband just got out of the army. He bought a PX4 and pop's out shot him with his lowly Sigma. The PX4 seems like a answer to a problem that does not exists.

I am impressed with the M&P Series. So much so I went a bought a .45acp FS. The pistol is a great combat weapon right out of the box.

There is no way I would dump my Sigma for a PX4.
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So because you out shot someone with a Sigma who had a PX4 it is basically useless?
 
Beretta PX4F vs. SW M&P
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I don't own a M&P but I do own the PX4 full size and Sub Compact and shoot them a LOT.

I own MANY handguns and the PX4 is definitely one of the best.





Here's a little comic relief about the PX4.:D

When I teach a new shooter, one of the things I tell them about sight alignment/sight picture is, "You can lay on the grass and shoot, you can sit in a lawn chair eating a Hamburger and shoot, you can even bend over and shoot between your legs, and as long as you maintain the proper sight picture you will hit close to what you're aiming at".

Shortly after buying the PX4 I was shooting by myself (home range). My sight picture speech came to mind. I thought, "Put your money where your mouth is".
So, at 10 yards, I faced away from the targets, bent over and shot at the four targets with the PX4.
Now a 73 year old man bent over shooting between his legs is not a pretty sight, so this will not be something I will be demonstrating to anyone.:D
But I did make my point.
Shootbetweenlegs.gif
 
FWIW, most State agencies swap pistols as often as they can, not due to reliability issues or what's proven but rather based on trade-in incentives, how interested those in charge are in a particular brand/model or even to collect "retiring" pistols. Yes some departments give officers the opportunity to buy their service pistol at a big discount. Who wouldn't want to try them all?

My only anecdotal experience with the PX 4 was from a bench away where a young couple took their new 9mm out and fired 200 rounds through it without issue. My 3 samples of the M&P have had no failures in several thousand rounds over the last year of ownership (~6,500 with 3,000 through the 40 cal. alone).

As far as testing, I think the FBI has now accepted the Glock and M&P (.40 S&Ws, both std. and compact) as having passed their testing criteria making them available for purchase by federal agencies. All other manufacturers being evaluated were sent packing.
 
OP, this is what I had to say about the M&P from a previous post/thread


A buddy of mine just got an M&P 45 and I put, maybe 50 rnds through it. Very nice. I think I like it a hair more than a G19 (for comparison sake because thats the market/manufacturer they're going after). That said, I dont think you could go wrong getting one of your own.
__________________
"Ya make me draw, I'll put ya down"- Raylan Givens


Further, I have NO experience with the PX4, just going off what I know and have used (might not be much but.), for what its worth. Not going to get involved with all the other garbage in this thread. (ToddG this, PX4 that). I like the PX4 too, just never had the pleasure.
 
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The PX4 has been tested by different governments and has come through with positive reviews. I doubt you'd have any problems with one.

ACCOKEEK, MD — Beretta U.S.A. has been awarded a multi-year contract from the Canada Border Services Agency effective immediately. This government-to-business contract will provide the soon to be armed Canadian agency with the Beretta Model Px4 Storm semi-automatic pistol in 9mm, double action with tritium sights.

The contract's initial order is for 2,400 units, with additional options allowing orders of up to 6,400 total units. As part of the contract, Beretta U.S.A. will train the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Armourer Section to become a warranty center for the product in support of the Canada Border Services Agency.

The Beretta PX4 Storm offers a number of unique features including interchangeable backstraps that make it adaptable to different hand sizes, an ambidextrous manual safety lever ideally positioned on both sides of the slide for easy access by all shooters and a reversible magazine release button that can be mounted on either side and can quickly be replaced by a smaller or larger size button depending on the users preference. The interchangeable backstrap and the ability to easily customize the Px4 Storm for individualized comfort and use make the pistol a versatile choice for law enforcement departments that have firearm users with a wide range of hand sizes.

In addition to the product features of the PX4 Storm, this Beretta semi-automatic pistol offers unsurpassed reliability in the field. During the CBSA evaluation, the Beretta Px4 Storm dramatically exceeded reliability and adverse test conditions, including testing at -40 degrees Centigrade.

According to Jeff Reh, Vice-General Manager for Beretta U.S.A. Corp., "We are honored to have been chosen for this prestigious contract by the Canada Border Services Agency. The Canadian Government has chosen a state-of-the-art pistol to match the increasingly challenging mission of providing border security. We look forward to working with the CBSA to satisfy the needs of this important department."
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Extensive International Testing Proves The Beretta PX4 Storm To Be Exceptionally Durable And Reliable

Accokeek, Maryland — Beretta announces is has received documentation from the Italian 'Banco di Prova' that three Beretta PX4 Storm pistols had 30,000 rounds (10,000 per pistol) fired through them with ZERO defects during a specialized ballistic test conducted on behalf of the German State Police. The Italian Banco di Prova, an Italian proof house that oversees and certifies testing for firearms, did the actual testing last month.

This independent testing is further proof of how the Px4 Storm series of pistols truly represents the next generation of handguns, providing a new threshold of durability and reliability for the Law Enforcement and Defense communities.

"The Px4 Storm not only offers Law Enforcement professionals incredible versatility by allowing the operator to fit the gun to his or her hands through any combination of backstraps, controls size and location, actions and calibers, but this pistol offers unprecedented reliability and durability regardless of the Law Enforcement operator and conditions," stated Matteo Recanatini, Marketing Manager, LE/Defense Division. "While we are very pleased with the results of the international testing, we are not surprised by them. This is a very reliable firearm."
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I just wanted to throw a in a little more info, this time coming from Dr. Roberts. Info provided from here.

From Dr. Roberts,

"As I've said before:

If you want a Glock, get it in 9 mm, as the 3rd gen 9 mm Glocks are probably the most proven pistols available.

The HK45 and HK P30 are good reliable service pistols, but beware of HK customer service and parts availability.

These days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mm’s are superb...

Unless you are issued one and have no other choice, forget Beretta.

XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.

The M&P may just be the best LE service pistol produced to date. I was involved in a M&P40 trial at a large agency where four M&P40's fired 7000 rounds each in 1 week without any significant issues. Up to this point, we have not seen any major problems yet with M&P's--they just keep steadily improving. The Apex duty kits offer a substantial improvement to the M&P trigger feel. An M&P w/ambi safety and Apex duty kit will be the service pistol I'll pick if I ever go back to patrol duties again."
 
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well darn, after all this talk about these so called "experts" (btw, are they sponsored, or have any sort of relationship with another gun manufacturer at all in any way?) I am going out tomorrow and selling BOTH of my PX4s because the flawless performance of both is obviously a fluke and should end at any time now.

I guess I will go out and buy one of these S&W pieces to match the other two S&W pieces I've had crappy luck with. One being a S&W500 that needed to go back TWICE because it was shaving the copper jacket off the bullet. The 386NG i have is worthless as 75% of the time I pull the trigger and get "click" thanks to Smith bending over to the gun wussies and putting in the shorter firing pins.

Or maybe I should buy a glock like the one I sold because it couldn't hit the broad side of a barn past 5 yards? At least I'll be able to smell the bad guy before I shoot him.

HAHA. I have yet to see ANYTHING manufactured in mass quantities that do not have SOME problems. I don't care if it's a gun, a corvette or a camera, you sell enough of them and people will have problems. Is the PX4's design flawed? No, and you'd have to have your head in a dark place to think it is. If it was, then EVERYONE would be having issues, not just a small percentage of people.

Oh, and agencies (cops, government or military) do not buy weapons, flashlights or anything else based solely on performance. If you believe they do no go for the cheapest bid you're kidding yourself.
 
The shear level of butt hurt around here is staggering. I'm not saying that if you have a PX4 that runs to go sell it. What I've been saying all along is that for the OP, he is better off looking to a platform that has actually proven itself rather than taking a gamble and hoping it pays off with the PX4's hit-or-miss performance.
 
Don't believe the px 4 is hit or miss. Look it up. There are a few more police agencies picking them up. I'm on a phone so I won't link which ones. As far as that goes I don't trust so called experts. Todd is not going to give a fair review. He is being paid by some one else. He is going to push the product that puts food on his table. Personal experience is what I trust. The px4 runs great for me. I've heard stories that the m&p had barrel bulging or cracking problems ( don't remember where I read that ) but that dosent mean there are junk. Just like these people who say the 92 is a piece of junk. When actually it is one the most reliable pistols ever made. Just get what feels right to you. If it dosent work then sell it and try something else. I have a lot of pistols in my safe. I prefer the Berettas. I even have the hat. They all make good guns. No company is going to put out absolute junk.
 
As far as that goes I don't trust so called experts.
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Or Internet posters, unless their post starts out something like,
I have owned the ***** pistol for *** years and have shot **** number of rounds through it and what I've seen is..........................

Or,
I don't own the ***** but I have a good bit of experience with it and...........


I really don't care what some "expert" says, unless he starts out as above and he isn't influenced one way or the other to trash or make the gun look good (which is why I stopped buying the gun rags years ago).
 
Trashing the Px4? Must be some internet commando that loves his Glock or mad at the 92 beating the 1911 and/or SIG?

Beretta makes a fine handgun and other firearms. Dr Roberts also says to stay away from Ruger autos...LOL! Seriously! Rugers make darn good guns but, the Berettas are more refined.

You realize there are Px4 Storms with over 150,000 rounds through them? Right? Or, did you not know this fact? And, the 150,000 rounds were put through them by an independant testing firm. Yeah dude! Those Px4's are weak! ... Whatever!

Virginia Tech Police now issue the Px4 Storm and Cx4 Storm in .40 cal after the Va Tech shootings. They choose a Beretta after some jerk used a G17 and Walther P22 to kill many students. So, that is one agency with some "real world" experience that will take Px4 Storm to stand on the frontlines to serve and protect!

Honestly, I think some people just fear the rotary design. It scares them. I posted it before in this thread and I'll post it again; I have owned both and the Beretta Px4 Storm wins hands down as the better gun. It is more accurate and has a superior trigger to the m&p. And, I must be an expert as I have owned both and SOME of the people posting here have NOT owned both.
 
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