Gixerman1000
Member
You never said, did yours have the wide slide (like the one in my photo)?
Beretta Tomcat
- Thread starter redraidermgr
- Start date
- Status
You never said, did yours have the wide slide (like the one in my photo)?
redraidermgr
Member
Yeah, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that it did have the wide slide. We checked to make sure it had the wide slide when we went to pick it up or we were going to get a different gun. So far no problems except for the one FTE.
paradox998
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 381
Not sure on the slide width
I sent the gun back, so I can't check. Both failed guns were new (hopefully). The first was purchased in December 2007 and the second came this June. So I would think that they would be new production and have the heavier slide. My problems were not with the slide, but the frame.
I sent the gun back, so I can't check. Both failed guns were new (hopefully). The first was purchased in December 2007 and the second came this June. So I would think that they would be new production and have the heavier slide. My problems were not with the slide, but the frame.
Gixerman1000
Member
The Tomcat is a blowback operated pistol meaning that the mass/weight of the slide or bolt (along with the force of the recoil spring) act to slow the breech from opening until the bullet has left the barrel and pressure levels have dropped.
In this type of system the more powerful the round the more mass/weight of the slide or bolt will be required to adequately absorb it’s recoil energy and regulate it’s cycle velocity, if the mass/weight of slide or bolt is too light to adequately absorb the correct amount of the recoil energy of the round, the slide or bolt will cycle at a higher velocity and retaine more energy.
Once the slide or bolt reaches the end of it’s travel, all energy remaining including any excess energy that was not absorbed by the mass/weight of the slide or bolt will then be transferred to the frame or receiver, if more energy is transferred to the frame or receiver than it is structually capable of withstanding, the excess stresses will immediately or eventually cause the frame or receiver to fail usually in the form of cracking at it’s weakest or highest stressed point.
I have seen several (maybe dozen) Tomcats with cracked frames, all of them were cracked over the cut out for the trigger linkage and all of them were blued with the narrow/light slide at a low round count. I have I would say around a thousand rounds through my INOX Tomcat with no cracking.
Well, my father is one of those guys that buys a .45 and ends up not carrying it because it's too big. And yes, he did the same thing with a 642(yes, you're reading this right), makarov and Kahr CW9 (yes, this was not a typo)........ So, I had the idea to get him a tomcat or a keltec p32/p3AT. He would not go for either keltec, even though the P3AT has significant punch he felt it was TOO SMALL (tough to please, huh?). He loved the feel of the Tomcat (almost a normal gun) yet found it small enough to pocket in an uncle mike's number 2. With it he also bought 100 fiocchi Extrema JHP's(XTP's) and 50 S&B FMJ's. The Tomcat shot quite accurate for a mousegun at 25 feet. I had ONE last round FTF with the S&B on the second mag (just a slide-pull-to-the-rear quick fix). When my father shot it he had one FTF with the jhp on the last round also. Another quick fix. So far, this is pretty decent reliability. During it's break-in it's only had 2 last round FTF's. I emphasize LAST ROUND because IMHO it's a far less significant problem than an FTF or FTE within the first few rounds. My gut tells me that this problem will smooth out anyways. No other problems with this gun at all.
I feel relatively confident with him CCW'ing(yes, he has his CCW) because I know this will be with him rather than at home in the safe.
He carries it with my recommendation of Fiocchi Extremas. Here is my reasoning: Mosy .32 ACP fans belong to either one of these camps, carrying a proven-expander JHP or carrying a fast FMJ. I don't buy into either camp. 6 inches of penetration with .45 expansion isnt enough IMHO nor is 12 inches of "shoot through" penetration with a nice aerodynamic FMJ. I figure if the non-expanding XTP get's 11 inches of penetration it's better off than an FMJ because it's shape WILL disrupt insides better than FMJ. At least it will tear a more jagged path. For the rather anemic .32 ACP round I find this to be a fair compromise.
I feel relatively confident with him CCW'ing(yes, he has his CCW) because I know this will be with him rather than at home in the safe.
He carries it with my recommendation of Fiocchi Extremas. Here is my reasoning: Mosy .32 ACP fans belong to either one of these camps, carrying a proven-expander JHP or carrying a fast FMJ. I don't buy into either camp. 6 inches of penetration with .45 expansion isnt enough IMHO nor is 12 inches of "shoot through" penetration with a nice aerodynamic FMJ. I figure if the non-expanding XTP get's 11 inches of penetration it's better off than an FMJ because it's shape WILL disrupt insides better than FMJ. At least it will tear a more jagged path. For the rather anemic .32 ACP round I find this to be a fair compromise.
Beretta not standing behind their products
For what it's worth. I purchased a new Tomcat through my dealer. Blue lighter weight slide. After reading THR postings I wrote Beretta with the serial number and asked if my gun was affected with this frame / slide problem. They did not even reply. I got the be assured we strive to respond in a timely manner etc.. automated email responce. It's been six weeks now. Well I have 5 other Beretta products but I will not spend another dime on anymore Berettas. Just thought you folks would like to know how poor their customer service is. End of story my dealer took it back and I purchased something else. In the past I have had the occasion to work with Smith and Wesson and Ruger and they have both been very very good.
For what it's worth. I purchased a new Tomcat through my dealer. Blue lighter weight slide. After reading THR postings I wrote Beretta with the serial number and asked if my gun was affected with this frame / slide problem. They did not even reply. I got the be assured we strive to respond in a timely manner etc.. automated email responce. It's been six weeks now. Well I have 5 other Beretta products but I will not spend another dime on anymore Berettas. Just thought you folks would like to know how poor their customer service is. End of story my dealer took it back and I purchased something else. In the past I have had the occasion to work with Smith and Wesson and Ruger and they have both been very very good.
Hoffy
Member
Reported INOX troubles?
Has anyone within the sound of my voice had problems with the Tomcat INOX?
It sounds like that might be the ticket...if you are interested in a Tomcat.
Has anyone within the sound of my voice had problems with the Tomcat INOX?
It sounds like that might be the ticket...if you are interested in a Tomcat.
I had a Tomcat and had problems with it, so I sold it and got an NAA Guardian. That felt like I was carrying a bick in my pocket and hurt my trigger finger every time I shot it.
I decided to try the KelTec P32 and it was much better for me than either the Tomcat or Guardian.
I now have three P3ATs that have been 100% and are better in every way, at least for me they are, so I don't see any reason to keep trying to find a Tomcat that works.
I decided to try the KelTec P32 and it was much better for me than either the Tomcat or Guardian.
I now have three P3ATs that have been 100% and are better in every way, at least for me they are, so I don't see any reason to keep trying to find a Tomcat that works.
Jakester0134
Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1
I sent my cracked blue Tomcat back and got INOX
Shot my original out of warranty blue Tomcat and frame cracked just in front of trigger on right rail as all others have experienced. Sent it back to Beretta two weeks ago.
New in box INOX Tomcat arrived today. NOTE: I did let Beretta know in the initial letter that swapping for an INOX was fine.
They sent the new gun with a letter explaining the original was unreparable and therefore was replaced with the new one with new S/N. (I live in Cali and had thought you had to go through an FFL if new s/n but Beretta says no if they receive gun and do a straight replace for same model and destroy original.)
I must say that I am pleased with Beretta. I do think they should have recalled the old models but they didn't argue or BS on this and swapped my "out of original warranty" Tomcat for the Inox without question or delay.
The process here is simple.
1. Mail to Beretta (overnight required) with clear letter and cite all established posts on Web showing crack is happening to loads of people.
2. In initial letter with unloaded gun, say you are ok with INOX replacement.
3. They have their process which requires a gunsmith at Beretta to certify the gun unrepairable. This can take up to 30 days and clearly they nicely expedited this for me since I legally carry this firearm for protection.
4. They will send you a new INOX
Final note people: No need to send your mags back with original gun as they will work in replacement and Beretta doesn't seem to care if they are present upon returns. I guess I could try to get the $51 it cost to send the defective Tomcat back refunded by Beretta, but based upon their prompt responsible response, I am happy and confident all who encounter this problem (and handle themselves professionally when dealing with Beretta service) will have the same outcome.
Hopefully the INOX Tomcat will not crack in the same place! *Nothing over 71 grains is advised.
Hope this helps others.
Shoot Safely!
Jakester ... more » « less
Shot my original out of warranty blue Tomcat and frame cracked just in front of trigger on right rail as all others have experienced. Sent it back to Beretta two weeks ago.
New in box INOX Tomcat arrived today. NOTE: I did let Beretta know in the initial letter that swapping for an INOX was fine.
They sent the new gun with a letter explaining the original was unreparable and therefore was replaced with the new one with new S/N. (I live in Cali and had thought you had to go through an FFL if new s/n but Beretta says no if they receive gun and do a straight replace for same model and destroy original.)
I must say that I am pleased with Beretta. I do think they should have recalled the old models but they didn't argue or BS on this and swapped my "out of original warranty" Tomcat for the Inox without question or delay.
The process here is simple.
1. Mail to Beretta (overnight required) with clear letter and cite all established posts on Web showing crack is happening to loads of people.
2. In initial letter with unloaded gun, say you are ok with INOX replacement.
3. They have their process which requires a gunsmith at Beretta to certify the gun unrepairable. This can take up to 30 days and clearly they nicely expedited this for me since I legally carry this firearm for protection.
4. They will send you a new INOX
Final note people: No need to send your mags back with original gun as they will work in replacement and Beretta doesn't seem to care if they are present upon returns. I guess I could try to get the $51 it cost to send the defective Tomcat back refunded by Beretta, but based upon their prompt responsible response, I am happy and confident all who encounter this problem (and handle themselves professionally when dealing with Beretta service) will have the same outcome.
Hopefully the INOX Tomcat will not crack in the same place! *Nothing over 71 grains is advised.
Hope this helps others.
Shoot Safely!
Jakester ... more » « less
guntotinguy
Member
I posted before on this thread about the original TomCat 3032 frame breaking,and Beretta did return it with an Inox,and so far no troubles but we have shot it that much yet.
I am pleased with Beretta,as it does seem they 'wanted to make this right' an so far they have!I will even go as far as to say the Inox shoots better and with more accuracy.
I am pleased with Beretta,as it does seem they 'wanted to make this right' an so far they have!I will even go as far as to say the Inox shoots better and with more accuracy.
420Stainless
Member
My wife has an Inox with a few hundred rounds through it. So far no troubles at all. I'm actually amazed at how accurate the little thing is.
guntotinguy
Member
+1 on that,I was surprised the difference of the first Tomcat and the Inox...not bad for a little .32,but still glad she only uses it as a BUG.
sig228
Member
benderx4
Member
+1 on the problems with blued Tomcats. In my case, the slide cracked AND the trigger bar "thingy" broke. Also had an issue with the safety. Beretta sent me a brand new INOX which I promptly traded in for a Seecamp LWS32.
For what it's worth, I also own an Italian made 92FS which I would trust with my family's lives. It's a bit big, but it has the smoothest action of any of my other pistols, and is VERY accurate. Similary, I carried a Beretta M-9 for many years in the Air Force with no issues whatsoever.
Tomcat - great idea, poor execution.
For what it's worth, I also own an Italian made 92FS which I would trust with my family's lives. It's a bit big, but it has the smoothest action of any of my other pistols, and is VERY accurate. Similary, I carried a Beretta M-9 for many years in the Air Force with no issues whatsoever.
Tomcat - great idea, poor execution.
Gixerman1000
Member
I was finally able to take some comparison photos of the newer wider and heavier 3032 Tomcat slide next to the older blued 3032 Tomcat slide and the differences are obvious, even more than I had imagined.
The width of the slides are 1.060” wide for the newer slide vs .925” wide for the older slide making the newer slide .135” wider. This may not sound like allot to some of you but the difference is huge when looking at the photos especially the photo of the slides laying flat and even on their sides.
Not only was the newer slide wider but it was also slightly taller in the rear half and much taller in the front open half, the front open half of the newer slide being much taller was beveled at the ejection port to match the height of the older slide.
This info on the bevel is a quick and easy way to ascertain if a blued Tomcat has the older narrow slide or the newer wider slide without the use of dial calipers or a ruler.
Unfortunately I do not have a small weight scale so I am not able to give the exact weigh difference between the two slides, however I can say without question the newer slide was noticeably heavier just by holding them in your hand.
The frames were identical as far as I could tell and I could swap the slides on the frames, though the newer INOX slide would not pull all the way back on the black frame I’m sure all it would have needed was a little fitting and I see no reason why Beretta couldn’t retro fit the newer slides on the older blued Tomcats.
The blued Tomcat in the photos came from a friend of mine that I had not seen in a while, he bought the gun new at a gun show a few months ago and was nice enough to let me take the comparison photos of it even after hearing that he may need to send the gun back with a cracked frame soon after shooting it.
The width of the slides are 1.060” wide for the newer slide vs .925” wide for the older slide making the newer slide .135” wider. This may not sound like allot to some of you but the difference is huge when looking at the photos especially the photo of the slides laying flat and even on their sides.
Not only was the newer slide wider but it was also slightly taller in the rear half and much taller in the front open half, the front open half of the newer slide being much taller was beveled at the ejection port to match the height of the older slide.
This info on the bevel is a quick and easy way to ascertain if a blued Tomcat has the older narrow slide or the newer wider slide without the use of dial calipers or a ruler.
Unfortunately I do not have a small weight scale so I am not able to give the exact weigh difference between the two slides, however I can say without question the newer slide was noticeably heavier just by holding them in your hand.
The frames were identical as far as I could tell and I could swap the slides on the frames, though the newer INOX slide would not pull all the way back on the black frame I’m sure all it would have needed was a little fitting and I see no reason why Beretta couldn’t retro fit the newer slides on the older blued Tomcats.
The blued Tomcat in the photos came from a friend of mine that I had not seen in a while, he bought the gun new at a gun show a few months ago and was nice enough to let me take the comparison photos of it even after hearing that he may need to send the gun back with a cracked frame soon after shooting it.
sithanas
Member
My mother's blued Tomcat suffered from the frame cracking while we were at the range, which actually resulted in an AD of the firearm. When we called Beretta they offered to exchange for an INOX, which we would have happily taken except that they were out of stock and had no idea when they would have more available! We took a refund instead.
Letter
I sent a broken tomcat in about a month ago and so far all I have received is a letter stating that out of warranty items will be charged 70 bucks for evaluation. Did you guys receive such a letter? I bought this thing new for my wife as a 2005 christmas present after she had eyeballed it pretty hard. This one had the trijicon night sights (Alleycat)
Tom
I sent a broken tomcat in about a month ago and so far all I have received is a letter stating that out of warranty items will be charged 70 bucks for evaluation. Did you guys receive such a letter? I bought this thing new for my wife as a 2005 christmas present after she had eyeballed it pretty hard. This one had the trijicon night sights (Alleycat)
Tom
Last edited:
- Status
