Bersa, Sig, Walther, or... ?

[Dionysusigma]

Well, I'm a James Bond fan. Thought I'd get that out of the way first. As of late, though, I've heard various reports of the famous PPK and/or PP failing various people's criteria as far as reliability, fit, and finish go. This leaves me in a bit of a pickle... should I listen to people who know what they're talking about, or go with the brand name and first impression?

The three models I've chosen are, of course, based on their reputations--Sig for their quality, Walther for their name (and history), and Bersa for their high bang-buck ratio. What I'd like to know is this: You are but a poor college student who actually has a bit of knowledge about guns. You also have a preference to action movies, specifically ones with spies. Which of these three would you pick? Or would you go for something else along these same aesthetically pleasing lines?

Also, it may be carried either on occasion or rather often, depending on your mood... so let's assume that all are chambered in .380. Easily attainable mags and spare parts/service factor in as well, should the need arise.

And just because I can, here're pics of the poll choices.

Walther PPK

Sig P232

Bersa .380

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

The SIG and Bersa won't rip up the web of your hand like the Walther could.

The Bersa is fine, but the SIG is a SIG.

I'd save up for it.

What's my .380? A Mauser HSc.


Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[tomkatz]

They are all fine, but I voted other = cz 83, just because I'm a cz nut!!!! .....tom

 

[NoScreenName]

You brought up the concept of a poor college student... In that case I'd rethink the PPK... Even the used models I've seen run around the high 300-low 400 mark... It's a pricey weapon for what you get...

The Sig 232 is moreso a pricey weapon... A very elegant weapon though... and in my humble opinion and in my experience with Sigs... it is well worth the price and I would get one before a PPk anyday.



Since you included the Sig 232, I would guess you are comfortable with the heel mag release...

In which case I might suggest a Makarov... very easy on the wallet being readily available for under 200... 9x18 is a bit stouter than 380 but if it is .380 or bust a simple barrel change and you now have a .380 Mak... It is known as being one of the more reliable of most pistols... and if you don't mind the heel mag release it is a perfect weapon IMO. It has quite a good reputation and a slightly different aura to it...

But I totally understand the mystique of the PPK... I think all Bond fans are all right there with you... myself included...

but is the cool factor the most important thing? Would you bet your life on it? That's why I don't own a PPK but still want one... Yeah it's cool and all... but better weapons are out there in the same price range...

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

You won't be able to get the enjoyment out of the PPK I believe, my wife bought one, fired it a few times, and we haven't touched it since. Pretty to look at, but her Walther P99 (current Bond gun!) and Bersa 380 get more range time.

If you can find a nice used Sig P232 ($350 or less), it will be a nice blaster. Bersa's tend to fall out of trees for about $200 and are a good buy.

Why not swing a Walther P99 for about $500 and get the current Bond issued gun, in 9mm, it will be cheap and fun to shoot. Though mags are a bit expensive.

 

[popeye]

In the early Bond books I've read long ago he carried a .25 Beretta with the grips removed. The grip frame was wrapped with electrical tape to make the gun flatter so as not to "print". He hated the switch forced on him to the PPK by "Q" I believe in about the third book in the series. He thought it was too big. That said I have had mixed luck with .380 PPK/S series. I currently have a .32 PPK/S that works well. The only .380 I currently own is a Browning BDA. I also have a Bulgarian Mak, an inexpensive reliable gun.

OOPS I lied. I JUST bought a kel tec .380. As yet untested.

 

[wally]

I voted SIG 232 because its the best of the three but unfortunately also the most expensive. Bersa is cheapest and a good buy. The Walther will likely have the worst trigger.

Definitely take a look at the CZ83 if you are commited to .380 as I've seen the blue guns for $240 which is only a little more than many of the Bersa varients run and it'll do cocked and locked carry in addition to DA/SA like these three which are DA/SA only.


If all you want is a cheap blaster famous in movies, look at the Beretta 9000s that Trinity carried in the Matrix. Seen these for $340 new and 9mm ammo is cheaper than .380 ammo.

--wally.

 

[otomik]

I dunno, I was a poor college student and chose the Bersa .22 but I also thought about the Makarov for a while, cheap ammo won out. A Phoenix HP22 is even cheaper. I think your poll doesn't have a clear objective.

In the early Bond books I've read long ago he carried a .25 Beretta with the grips removed.

Beretta 418, loved it, never failed him (the movie dialogue is different from the books for expediency)

 

[otomik]

If all you want is a cheap blaster famous in movies, look at the Beretta 9000s that Trinity carried in the Matrix.

no she didn't but a better cheap Beretta substitute would be the Helwan 9mms going around these days. around 200.

 

[cratz2]

As far as overly heavy 380s go, I'd take the CZ83 first, then a P232... PP/PPK/PPKs are nice to have in a collection, but I'd rather not carry/shoot one a whole lot...

Actually, I'd take a Kahr P9 or TP9 before any 380...

 

[wally]

quote:If all you want is a cheap blaster famous in movies, look at the Beretta 9000s that Trinity carried in the Matrix.

no she didn't

It wasn't the first move, but "reloaded" or whatever is the one playing on cable
now where they rescue the "keymaker". Saw that part of it again last weekend so I'm sure about the gun it that scene. Where she carried it in that outfit is a whole 'nother issue

All these choices are "big" for a .380 these days. I'd go fro a 9mm StarBM for $140 from www.jgsales.com before I'd go for a Helwan if we're open to the best cheap gun readily available now (it'll end up more like $170 when you pay shipping and FFL transfer fee).

I would buy a Helwan if I saw one for $200. When I see them they are very rough and priced $250 or more so I pass.

--wally.

 

[outofbattery]

I'm wearing an alloy 230 with 232 grips at this very moment . It's a great gun : fits my hand perfectly , points like no other and is capable of amazing accuracy - everyone that shoots it literally is amazed by how tight of a group it keeps and how easy it is to put them there . I have to admit that I bought it first and foremost for the "cool factor" but it carries invisibly and I have confidence in putting a couple .380's where I would like to put a single larger round . I'd like to say that the physical sensation of shooting it is as much fun as the results of how well it shoots , but it's not so for me . YMMV .

The downsides are cost of the gun and the higher cost of rounds than a 9mm if you're on a budget . IIRC , I paid $399 for mine - probably close to average for a 230 or 232 in nice shape . If it is to be your only gun and is mostly for plinking and not for CCW , I'd actually suggest that there might be better choices though . There's an upside to snappy recoil and a thin grip if you'd like to look at it that way : 20 rounds from the 230 feel like 100 from a full sized .40 or .357SIG to me

The aforementioned and much maligned Beretta 9000S ( these look like them to me , haven't seen the movie though http://www.citysearch.cz/wallpapers/zobrazeni_en.php?res=9&obr=540 though Tom Cruise used one if movie credits are a crtieria ) is a great plinker for about $350 and though it's a bit chunky , it works just fine for CCW . I don't have especially large hands and the *too fat* grip has never bothered me - with the mag adaptor and 92 mag it feels pretty similar in the grip of any full size double stack . I love the looks of it too : blocky has been done and done again in pistol design , of all my guns the 230 and 9KS are probably my favorites visually , if not to shoot .

A Taurus PT-92 would be a good choice if you'd like to do John Woo on a budget too .

 

[albanian]

I think the Bersa is flat out better than the Walther PPK. It has better sights and a better trigger which often translates to better accuracy. It is also far more confortable to shoot than the Walther. The Walther looks better and is the real 007 gun but that wears thin if you don't enjoy shooting it. The SIG is a fine gun but at $450 and up, I wonder if it is not out of your price range. For the price of a SIG or Walther, you could get a Kahr. Kahrs are some of the best small autos ever made and they are more than just for fun. Get a Kahr K-9 and you will be set. The Kahr can be a CCW, home defense gun, car gun, primary carry gun, range gun or plinker. It is the one handgun I would keep if I could only keep one.

 

[MrAcheson]

The SIG and Bersa won't rip up the web of your hand like the Walther could.

Not true, both my brother and I got slide bite from a Sig 232 at our range. I was able to finish the box, he couldn't even finish a magazine. I have no desire to shoot the walther although the bersa may be going on my shopping list.

 

[gbelleh]

I voted Bersa.

As a poor college student, you can't beat the value of a Bersa. The Bersa is also very likely to be totally reliable out of the box. You can use the money you save to buy ammo and have fun shooting!

I bought a Bersa for $209.00 and didn't expect too much from it. It quickly exceeded all expectations and became one of my favorite guns. Especially when I consider what I paid for it.

The Sig is a nice gun for sure, but the Bersa will do everything the Sig can do (except look as nice).

My Walther PPK/S sits in the safe looking pretty, while my Bersa goes with me to the range.

 

[outofbattery]

Something to consider would be a P22 for cheap plinking and looking cool and getting the Bersa for CCW and HD if you're wanting to spend the whole budget .


Regarding gun value : the Bersa probably is every bit as good functionally as the 230/232 from everything I've heard . Is the entirely subjective cool factor worth $200 ?That's a considerable bunch of range time or any number plinkers like a Buckmark , Mk II , used Neos or P22 etc or even any number of things like a Makarov - maybe even something like a used Firestar or Sigma 9mm .

 

[otomik]

if we're talking about carriable plinkers for a modest budget we should be talking about .22s and 9mm (Parabellum or Mak). otherwise our hypothetical college student isn't so bright.

stylish choices are
Bersa .22lr, Walther P22, Phoenix HP22, Erma .22 Lugers
Helwan 9mm, Star "1911ish" 9mm, Bersa 9mm, Beretta 9000s, Makarov, FEG PA-63, Arcus

also, does anyone know why the 9000s is so fat?

 

[Mulliga]

I voted Bersa. Pretty good guns that most people like, and the price is right. The Maks others have mentioned are great values, but a bit rough and "snappy".

That said, a Walther P99 is current Bond issue, and probably the most practical choice. Lots of firepower, good rep, and fairly compact. Even spies have to move into the 21st century.

 

[Jim4003]

I had a Walther PPKS, it was a fine gun but the smaller autos have not really gotten my attention as the full size guns have. I have been toying with the idea of a mak. I do like the Mauser Hsc choice posted earlier, something out of the ordinary.

 

[wally]

also, does anyone know why the 9000s is so fat?

Not a clue. The fatness is all in the slide and safety levers. Both me and my wife love the feel of the 9000s grip. Too fat for me to carry, but good car/purse gun for her, fun range gun for both of us.

There is a 9000s thread from last week where I posted measurements of the .40 S&W 9000s vs 1911 and Glock 21.

"Brand Name" full power gun for <$350 is pretty rare these days.

--wally.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

Another vote for CZ-83. I'll take the extra weight and the hi-cap mags over all the other choices given.

ZM

 

[Flashpoint]

Money being tight I would go with a all stainless Bersa .380, or maybe even try to find a all stainless Bersa 9mm.

If I had to have a .380 and has the money to spend I would get the Sig over the Walther anyday.

I would also look into the CZs that have been suggested.

 

[outofbattery]

It's just my supposition that lots of how fat the 9000S is has to do with Internet Inflation . People who have looked at them or picked one up who have heard they are exceptionally large in the grip expect them to be and think that they are , parroting the line whenever appropriate : somewhat like Sigmas all being heaps , Kimbers likewise and all Glocks Kabooming . I have never had anyone who had no prior knowledge of the gun have an issue with it - including several women and guys of smaller stature . The decocker's added width of the slide is the biggest reason I don't carry it more often than I do - if I had the DAO version I would probably carry it quite a bit . A $10 adaptor allows it to take the cheap and plentiful 92 magazines making it a pretty good deal if you think of it as an inexpensive and good quality high cap pistol . For car / purse / nightstand duty I think they're a pretty good deal . Is it the best polymer pistol ever and have no faults ? No , but it's a far cry from being as awful as many make it out to be - functionally , it's a great gun .

 

[denfoote]

You can't go wrong with the Walther!!
Even though they are made by S&W now, they are good guns!!
I have one and I like it!!

 

[Mark]

Just wondering, can someone verify?

I vaguely remember reading that the Smith PPK has a longer tang for the slide bite issue.

It seems that other posters and gun magazine dudes have less function problems with the .32 caliber. Any opinions?

The Smith PPK I saw but did not handle looked like it had sharp edges. If so then get the stainless version as it can be fixed without ruining the finish.

If you need the gun for protection there are too many reasons to pick a different make/model, if not then save your money and get the PPK. It sounds like that is what you really want.