Best .32 S&W Long for Defense?

[ThomasT]

And yet that's exactly why .38 roundnose has been such a dismal failure as a manstopper and the military returned to the .45.

And the 38 RN the military had problems with was the 38 Long Colt not the 38 Special. And do a little reading and you will see that in the Philippine war the 45 also failed to stop attacks as did the 30-40 Krag round. The only sure stopper was a 12ga with buckshot. And that at close range.

The 38 Long Colt actually worked well to start withe and the Army was happy with it. It wasn't until the war moved south to Mindanau and Jollo that the failures of the 38, 45 and 30-40 happened.

But I really hope we can go back to talking about 32s. One of my favorite rounds.

 

[jimbo555]

Get a Ruger lcr 327 and shoot the longs for practice. Load the 327 mag for defense.

 

[Branko_D]

Funny how all the armies in WWI and WWII which used FMJ and similar in pistols and SMGs only managed to tickle people with them

 

[RealGun]

I think the difference in bullet shape performance in 32 SWL is academic, witnessed by how few bullet shapes are available for it or even in common casting molds. Seriously, we're quibbling about degrees of tissue damage with these little BBs?

 

[CraigC]

Not academic at all. To suggest so is to betray a lack of experience and dispense with any credibility you might've had. The difference is considerable, whether it's .32's or .500's. If the nonsense you suggest was true, there would've been no need for Elmer Keith to develop his famous semi-wadcutter or Veral Smith his LBT. Sorry but this BS ain't gonna fly.

And it makes a whole lot more difference at the bottom than it does the top.

 

[MaxP]

Semi-Wadcutters and LRN and FMJ-RN all make the same size hole. Bullet weight and velocity will make the difference, but in that range I doubt if one should expect much expansion.
__________________/QUOTE]

This is incorrect. Craig is correct on all points. Also, RNs tend not to track straight in flesh.

 

[Tallball]

I would not prefer to use 32 long for SD.

However, I would certainly recommend it to one of those people who is recoil sensitive and thinks they want to use 22lr for SD.

32 long throws a much bigger chunk of lead and has very light recoil.

I have made this comment several times, and have had the person look at me like I am crazy, then go back to discussing what brand of 22lr to use.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[WestKentucky]

I promise im not trying to fuel the argumentative fire we are seeing over the last few posts, BUT, back to my original point in post 22...

There is a tradeoff between penetration and wound channel, whether that be cut, rip, expansion, however you want to look at it, there is a tradeoff between penetration and wound channel. If a person were to actually fire a round in self defense using a 32swl revolver, and it were to be shot through a nice thick carhartt or similar coat which is very common, and were to hit a bone, would it have the power to keep going, or would the bullet just sit there on the surface? I believe that the answer depends on the type of bullet used. a hard, heavy bullet which has not deformed much and has a nice round nose is more likely to turn and keep going than a flat faced bullet which is softer and not as streamlined. Is this purely academic, I don't think so because this is a very real scenario. Its cold outside. Clothing is thick, and often designed to be very rugged. I would almost say that a fmjrn would be equally as effective with zero deformation. I hope I never have to test my theory.

 

[golden]

Just too little to work with

WESTK,

The problem with the .32 S&W Long is a combination of things. Many of the guns chambered for this round are weak. BUFFALO BORE says NOT TO USE IN BREAK OPEN GUNS.
The basic velocity level and small bullet, do not leave much room for improvement.

Even so, the velocity of the BUFFALO BORE 100 grain wadcutter load would probably be under 800 fps in a 2 inch barrel. If the barrel was longer, like a 4 inch, things look better. BB gets 900 fps or better out of a 4 inch barrel.

Note that H&R tried to do this with their H&R magnum. They went to higher velocities and pressure, but I have not seen much information on the effectiveness of the .32H&R magnum which overcomes the velocity problem that the .32 S&W Long has. So it is hard to tell if this will become an effective round.


I fired some COR BON Powerball rounds out of an H&R 732 last year and it worked, but accuracy was awful.
These rounds shot well in my BERETTAS and WALTHER PPK, so I do not think the problem was the ammo.

I would never use round nose lead bullets as anything but range ammo as they have a LONG, DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF FAILURES in the much more powerful .38 Special round.
I also note that NO ONE RECOMMENDS THEM AS HUNTING AMMO even in the .44 and .45 caliber rounds.

If FEDERAL loaded the .32ACP Hydra Shok bullet or FIOCCHI loaded the 60 grain XTP hollowpoint from HORNADY, then this round might have a chance, but with these light bullets, I am not sure how accurate they would be.
Perhaps an 85 grain lead semi wadcutter hollow point (like the popular +P .38 Special load) or a lead Hydra Shok round might be the answer.
They might expand at the 800 fps velocity that you could achieve.

Jim

 

[JSH1]

I use these in my H&R 732:



https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=345

 

[HGM22]

JSH, have you fired a lot of those rounds in the H&R?

I ask because while H&R doesn't have the best reputation, their revolvers seem well-built and appear like they could handle the hotter BB rounds (to an untrained eye).

 

[Steve C]

With a good solid frame revolver like the later built Colt Police Positive and S&W Regulation Police Model 31 that where produced into the 70's you can hand load the S&W .32 Long with 98gr lead bullets pushing 940 fps using data from Speer no 9. Every bit as powerful as a .380 with solid bullets.

Speer published loads for the .32 S&W Long with their 60 gr Gold Dot that ran over 1,000 fps from a 3" barreled S&W Model 31 if an expanding bullet is more to your liking.

While the .32 S&W Long has lost its commercial edge as a light weight, low recoiling accurate handgun for self defense to smaller pistols in more potent calibers it doesn't mean that it won't stop an assailant dead with a well placed shot or two. The .32 was used by many law enforcement officers in the 18 and early 1900's including the NYPD when it was run by Teddy Roosevelt in 1894.

 

[RealGun]

Elmer Keith to develop his famous semi-wadcutter or Veral Smith his LBT.

I was implying that Elmer Keith name dropping is irrelevant to something as small as 32 SWL, for which one would be hard pressed to find even a mold for something other than round nose, let alone commercial ammo.

 

[MaxP]

The caliber has no bearing on the performance of the various bullets discussed. Veral Smith will make you a mold for the .32. They are available and with the advent of other .32s like the relatively new .327 there is a renewed interest in all things .32.

 

[eldon519]

The caliber has no bearing on the performance of the various bullets discussed.

Exactly, and if you are using something considered marginal, logic would dictate you'd want all the help you can get. There are Buffalo Bore wadcutters and FN loads at slightly above-average velocities, so lack of availability doesn't really hold water either.

 

[RealGun]

The caliber has no bearing on the performance of the various bullets discussed

The context would have to include the mild velocities of the SWL. Use a similar bullet in a 327 Federal Magnum load, and I expect the results would be different.

 

[JSH1]

JSH, have you fired a lot of those rounds in the H&R?

I ask because while H&R doesn't have the best reputation, their revolvers seem well-built and appear like they could handle the hotter BB rounds (to an untrained eye).

No I haven't. At $1.50 a pop I've only shot 14 of them which left me a full cylinder just in case I actually need them

I've fired 600 rounds through the H&R, mostly wadcutters from Fioochi or Magtech.

 

[eldon519]

The context would have to include the mild velocities of the SWL. Use a similar bullet in a 327 Federal Magnum load, and I expect the results would be different.

Sure, a .327 LRN might be marginally more effective than a .32 SWL LRN, but a SWC, Keith, LBT, or wadcutter will still cause more permanent damage than the LRN in the same caliber. Doesn't really change that an LRN or FMJ is going to give you about the worst terminal performance possible for most handgun rounds.

 

[RealGun]

Doesn't really change that an LRN or FMJ is going to give you about the worst terminal performance possible for most handgun rounds.

Since most 32 SWL bullets, not overly heavy 32-20 bullets, are round nose, it's all still academic and expecting too much from this little cartridge. My 32 SWL bullets are 78 gr LRN. The gun is so accurate with this load that I am not going to mess with other loads. I don't and shouldn't expect a lot of damage, should I ever have to shoot something other than paper with the gun.

All the calibers/cartridges offer round nose bullets. Some are used in military or perhaps law enforcement applications.

I don't doubt that the damage that could be done by a 32 SWL could be optimized beyond what commonly available bullets could inflict, typically round nose, but why bother? It's a nice little gun that could aid in a retreat, should one choose to carry it for personal security. The problem becomes one of likely being out gunned by a lot, if in some sort of shoot out.

However, our topic is best for personal defense, so those who want to discuss that seriously make good points about what would work best.

 

[eldon519]

However, our topic is best for personal defense, so those who want to discuss that seriously make good points about what would work best.

You're basically just admitting that your contributions to this are just derailing the conversation. Most of your counterpoints are not logically grounded rebuttals either. So what if the common ammo sucks? There is readily available superior ammo out there. It would be a logically valid objection if such ammo did not exist, but it does. Whether or not it is the norm doesn't negate its advantage or turn the argument academic. Likewise your view that you don't expect much from the .32 SWL doesn't really address the OP's request regarding what works best. Asking what works best is not automatically tied to asking too much. No offense, but your side musings aren't really helpful and you seem to feel the need to make counterpoints to everyone who is trying to respond to the OP's actual concern. The guy asked how to help the .32 be all it can be; he didn't propose to stop a rhinoceros with it.

 

[kBob]

Since the topic is NOT should the OP use a .32 S&W for personal defense......

I have not shot much other than inert targets with a .32 S&W. My biggest concern with Wad Cutters is a concern that they may not penetrate enough. My concern with RNL is that it may not leave much of a permanent wound. Personally I think either has merits and would be happy with whatever I could find.

Look at what Steve said.

Clark scares me but his work is very interesting. Nice to see all the old TC scopes are not dead. Somewhere I have the TC adapter for a Ruger Blackhawk and a broken, useless TC scope. Seating those bullets out like that must give him about as much room as in a .32 H&R.

Clark, how much velocity difference between the crimped and uncrimped velocities with the same loads?

I have mentioned in the past so you "older" THR guys bear with me. I have a soft spot for the .32 S&W Long/ .32 Colt NP. I met a lady that was the next thing to anti gun having been raised in a family where making gun fingers at play resulted in a spanking. I got her into shooting with a Colt Police Positive in .32Colt NP which naturally all the ammo boxes she got called .32 S&W Long. Got her thinking about guns and women's rights and safety and guns. She became active in the NRA. She was one of the original shakers and movers on the AWARE women programs and eventually became President of an NRA Club of the year.....all because she found a .32 acceptable to begin with.

Actually that little .32 eased more than just her among the fairer sex into guns and gun rights.

.32 S&W Long may not be the gun for everyone, but it full fills one of the most important rules of gun fighting "Have A gun."

-kBob

 

[kBob]

LEE offers a 90 grain SWC set of casting blocks.

Other offer Flat pointed "round nose" bullets of 100 grains.

Lapua makes a 100 grain WC

and Berry's sells DEWC of 83 grains. Bullets and dies are out there. Just Google for them.

I found those three on different sites just since my last posting.

-kBob

 

[CraigC]

The context would have to include the mild velocities of the SWL. Use a similar bullet in a 327 Federal Magnum load, and I expect the results would be different.

It doesn't matter. The result is the same for any velocity. A SWC/LBT is going to be measurably better than any roundnose.

 

[RealGun]

You're basically just admitting that your contributions to this are just derailing the conversation.

Non sequitur. You really need to omit the pop psychology. It's aggressive and too personal. I have my own view but am enjoying what others are contributing.

 

[CraigC]

Non sequitur. You really need to omit the pop psychology.

Oh the irony! I'm sure at some point you'll call one of us who disagrees with you a "bully".

Google Paco Kelly's .22LR tool and the CCI SGB if you think a flat nose on a small bullet doesn't make a difference.