Why would anyone contend that this is about "things that have never happened"?
Best 44 special for self defense?
- Thread starter shoebox1.1
- Start date
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,366
Because there is no evidence that it has ever happened, at least that I know of.
Bazoo
Member
Congratulations, that's a beauty. I currently am carrying a 44 Special Ruger Blackhawk, and right now, I have RCBS 44-240-SWC loaded in it at standard 44 Special pressure. Even with that, over-penetration is a concern. I would like to get a large HP bullet at around the 220 Grain mark to help mitigate this concern.
44 Special is a touch more powerful than 45 automatic at the standard pressure level of 15,500 PSI, with 45 auto loads easily reproduced.
You should consider something other than wadcutter and SWC bullets because they do not load quickly, tending to hang up on the shoulder. Even with a Ruger Blackhawk loading singly, RF is much smoother loading.
If you're looking to get started reloading on the cheap/easy, I suggest a Lee Hand press with ram prime, used RCBS dies with shell holder, and Lee dippers. That's really all that's required other than a manual. Tt's just one step up from a Lee Loader, but it'll be useful for any other calibers you might want to reload in the future.
If you are going to load plain based lead bullets, you'll need to be concerned about base swaging (if the case is inside expanded too little, the result is swaging of the base of the bullet smaller than desired). The middle die or "expander" die is where you control/alter this. Most die sets are made for jacketed bullets which do not have an issue with base swaging, so the expanders used are smaller than those needed for lead bullets. You can call RCBS and tell them you're wanting to load .430 sized bullets and they'll send you a "cowboy" expander for the expanding die, which will work just fine.
Another option would be to load gas checked bullets, if you can find them, as the gas check on the base of the bullet resists the swaging effect of a too-small expanded case.
44 Special is a touch more powerful than 45 automatic at the standard pressure level of 15,500 PSI, with 45 auto loads easily reproduced.
You should consider something other than wadcutter and SWC bullets because they do not load quickly, tending to hang up on the shoulder. Even with a Ruger Blackhawk loading singly, RF is much smoother loading.
If you're looking to get started reloading on the cheap/easy, I suggest a Lee Hand press with ram prime, used RCBS dies with shell holder, and Lee dippers. That's really all that's required other than a manual. Tt's just one step up from a Lee Loader, but it'll be useful for any other calibers you might want to reload in the future.
If you are going to load plain based lead bullets, you'll need to be concerned about base swaging (if the case is inside expanded too little, the result is swaging of the base of the bullet smaller than desired). The middle die or "expander" die is where you control/alter this. Most die sets are made for jacketed bullets which do not have an issue with base swaging, so the expanders used are smaller than those needed for lead bullets. You can call RCBS and tell them you're wanting to load .430 sized bullets and they'll send you a "cowboy" expander for the expanding die, which will work just fine.
Another option would be to load gas checked bullets, if you can find them, as the gas check on the base of the bullet resists the swaging effect of a too-small expanded case.
Yes there is. That has been discussed here at great length over the years. Ayoob has cited one case, and there have been cases in which defendants' use of factory ammo permitted the judge to admit exculpatory evidence.
But consider this: the only way that you would know about it would be from an appellate decision in a case in which an appellant contested a trial court judge's decision to not allow the admission of evidence regarding hand loads. And that will not happen, because the legal principle has already been adjudicated by the Supreme Court.
OP
OP
shoebox1.1
Member
That’s when I wish I had a mentor to go over all that in person when I start pulling handles. I had that man.. but he went to be with The Lord.
Miami_JBT
Member
Home brewed stuff is fine. What do you think the boutique ammo companies are? They're just nicely packaged home brews.
Miami_JBT
Member
Ayoob dealt with numerous different jurisdictions. I deal with FL primarily. Even in the most leftist of circuits. It isn't an issue. Now, NYC or Union City, NJ is a different story.
In the end, a one size fits all approach isn't the solution here.
The Rules ov Evdence of most states mirror the Federal Rules of Evidence,. In those that have different fules, the differences are not substantive.
What on earth might ""leftist' have to do with the rules of evidence? As gatekeeper, the trial court judge is bound by them.
With process records that meet the rules of evidence.
Miami_JBT
Member
Prosecutors will push a number of things during trial. I've seen it first hand. Heck, I've seen some go after cops because they had a "Punisher Skull" sticker on their clipboard in their patrol car once. The State Attorney's Office claimed that the officer was aggressive and the "Punisher Skull" was a sign of said aggressiveness.
Bazoo
Member
My condolences. I'm glad to help any way I can either in open forum in a thread or by private messages/emails/phone.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this. Thos has todo with the admissability of the kind of frensic evience that used to be referred to as "forensic scientivic trace evidence".
Correct! However, "boutique ammo companies" are registered (whatever is right legal term) as a companies for ammunition manufacturing, average reloader Joe isn't.
Considering variety of 44 Special ammunition some specialized manufacturers are offering ("from mild to wild"), even $50-60 a box of 20 rounds isn't something that will bankrupt anybody.
On the end, when talking strictly about selfdefense, how many years 20 rounds will last?
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,366
Quite a few folks insist on firing a certain number of defensive rounds through a gun before trusting them. I have seen anywhere from 100 to 500 commonly cited. I don't necessarily buy into the logic myself - especially in a revolver - but there you go.
At any rate, we've certainly done a fine job derailing the OP's thread.
NeroM....Just after the midpoint of the last century (~1964-68 to be exact), I kept myself in .38 Specials and 9mm's using a Lyman 310 Tong tool, a tin of Bullseye, a small balance scale, a dipper made from a .32 ACP case, and a Herter's Powder dribbler. Tedious, but worked for the small number of rounds fired in a day's tromping around Colorado's Front Range, horseback. Fishing the streams and picking off grouse occupied my days when I wasn't on academic probation....Thanks for the reminder...Rod
silicosys4
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2012
- Messages
- 3,676
I like this picture so I'll post it again.
This is what I picked up as a knockaround woods gun, just a cheap Taurus so I don't mind it getting rained on, dropped, scratched up by going over barbwire, or smacked against car doors and random fence posts.
I prescribe to the KISS principle, 7.5gr. Unique under a Keith 250gr semi wadcutter. Will do anything and everything I'll ever need it to do. In the unlikely event I decide to urban carry, the cast SWC will be replaced with a 240gr Hornady XTP over the same charge.
This is what I picked up as a knockaround woods gun, just a cheap Taurus so I don't mind it getting rained on, dropped, scratched up by going over barbwire, or smacked against car doors and random fence posts.
I prescribe to the KISS principle, 7.5gr. Unique under a Keith 250gr semi wadcutter. Will do anything and everything I'll ever need it to do. In the unlikely event I decide to urban carry, the cast SWC will be replaced with a 240gr Hornady XTP over the same charge.
NeroM
Member
RodFac:
Probably hijacking this thread a little with some reloading history....
Started hand loading in 1967 (or 66?...memory). My father primarily carried an Ithaca made 1911 and had passed on to me a S&W Victory- both he had returned from WWII with. He rarely shot the S&W, it was in great shape when i got it, used it for years. I too started with a Lyman 310, a home made dipper, home cast bullets, Herco powder. The process was truly "hand loading" - yep it was a slower process, but it was satisfying and effective. In the process of moving around in life, not sure what happened to my 310- use my current portable kit mostly for 38 Spl. My sons suggest it is "senile nostalgia" - perhaps so - but it makes me happy and they bring their empty 38 Spl cases [mostly shot in M10] for refill. Thanks for keeping this alive, Sincerely... NeroM.
357smallbore
Member
I have a 4 & 6.5 Smith 624. 4in is loaded with Underwood 200 gr wadcutters and the 6.5 is loaded with Blazer 200gr jhp.
Boom Vang
Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 219
Not this c**p again.....
Speaking as a lawyer, your "legal point of view", is not. But you do you.
For concealed carry over four seasons, I prefer a lighter smaller handgun than an N-frame or Blackhawk frame. My favorite is the current Charter Classic Bulldog, which has been reliable over the past 2000 rounds, and plenty accurate out to at least 25 yards (which is about 3-5+ times the probable distance needed).
Here are some tests I conducted with various .44 Special ammunition. While any .44 Special load creates a serious wound, I prefer the GT Bullets 190 grain SWCHP at ~875 fps in a handload. In factory ammo the Hornady 165 grain FTX is my choice. The Federal load was rather disappointing. If I needed to shoot at large animals, heavier bullets would be better, but that's not my envelope for this little revolver.
OP
OP
shoebox1.1
Member
Anyone is welcome to Discuss reloading 44spc here. I need all the info I can process
I watched a video from Mas a few years ago where a person using reloads ended up in prison. He said the man he shot was close to him and it was self defense. But when the forensic evidence didn't match up to typical rounds bought from a store it appeared the man was shot at a greater distance and not self defense. A lawyer that knew about reloading may have thought to look into it but that is not typical knowledge.
NeroM
Member
Shoebox1.1:
Humblest apologies for getting off course on this topic.......
My favorite 44 Spl load is a 255 gr Cast Performance plain base bullet,
launched by 13.5 gr of 2400 - yields approx 985 fps from a Ruger.
I believe this load is probably near +p [if there is such a thing for 44 Spl].
Also CPC may have discontinued this bullet [BOO!] -
but i have a couple hundred left.
Think of this as a woods load, also fine for deer size game.
the Black Spot
Member
Wadcutters
OP
OP
shoebox1.1
Member
My favorite ammo.
