1911 guy
Member
I carry Golden Sabers
185gr +P's.
185gr +P's.
Best .45 Factory Defensive Ammo?
- Thread starter sithanas
- Start date
- Status
Browns Fan
Member
Does aguila make a similar round for 9mm?
Pistol Toter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2005
- Messages
- 657
MY GLOCK 21 is stoked with Remington 230 gr. Golden Sabre.
steveracer
Member
I tried Aguilla...
....they make some of the best .22LR on the planet, but their .45ACP load is really lousy a killing live targets in my experience. I shot a feral hog with the IQ load, and it came apart in the shoulder and there were four small fragments a few inches from the entry wound in the shoulder joint itself. It didn't stop the hog from walking away. The 230gn Ranger round shattered the spine and blew a large hole in the sternum. Not the best test, I know, but enough to make me not want to carry this round for defense. I carry either Golden Sabres, or Ranger 230gn on the 5" gun, and 185gn +P Double Tap rounds in the 4".
Steve.
....they make some of the best .22LR on the planet, but their .45ACP load is really lousy a killing live targets in my experience. I shot a feral hog with the IQ load, and it came apart in the shoulder and there were four small fragments a few inches from the entry wound in the shoulder joint itself. It didn't stop the hog from walking away. The 230gn Ranger round shattered the spine and blew a large hole in the sternum. Not the best test, I know, but enough to make me not want to carry this round for defense. I carry either Golden Sabres, or Ranger 230gn on the 5" gun, and 185gn +P Double Tap rounds in the 4".
Steve.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Desk Jockey asked,
No. The shorter barrels have trouble getting ammo up to speed when using regular pressure 230 gr ammo that is designed to get up to velocity with a 5" barrel. Since velocity is critical to expansion of the hollowpoint rounds and since expansion can be iffy in handgun ammo, this can be a bad thing. To compensate, the better way to go would be to use a lighter ammo in the 3.7" barrel. preacherman says he uses GS 185 gr. +P ammo. I prefer Speer Gold Dot 185s. Both seem to be good performers out of shorter barrels.
Note that one of the drawbacks of shorter barrels is the aspect that since .45 acp ammo is designed for 5" barrels and since many defensive rounds have some fairly impressive flash from 5" barrels, the flash out of a shorter barrel can be significantly brighter since more powder has the chance to burn outside the barrel.
M2 Carbine uses Aguila IQ ammo in his 3" derringer. The telephone book tests he show do look impressive, and they would be if you were fighting wet phonebooks. The issue here is that phonebooks are not a good substitute for the real thing (human body tissue) or ballistics gel. Gel tests show only about 4-6" of penetration and that is not very much considering ballistics gel tends to allow greater penetration than soft tissue. The reason for this is that the lightweight metal does fragment into 3-4 pieces, usually, and each takes its own course. When the parts come off, they lose the synergy that comes with keeping the roudn intact, hence loose energy. This is akin to race cars that are designed (in part) to break apart on crash impact, each piece coming off carries energy away from the main part of the car containing the driver. Part of the result is that the car then stops sooner.
silicon wolverine said,
No sir. That is very much in error. Adrenaline does not suppress sound or sight for that matter, although people may not hear the shots they are firing and may have tunnel vision. Shots not being heard is called audio exclusion. Basically, some or all sounds may be 'ignored' by the brain under stress. This does not, however, protect the ear from hearing damage. In regard to vision, tunnel vision may appear to reduce a person's sight, but the rods and cones in the eye can still be burned out if you stare at the sun if you have adrenaline tunnel vision.
In both cases, the damage is physical, not mental.
No. The shorter barrels have trouble getting ammo up to speed when using regular pressure 230 gr ammo that is designed to get up to velocity with a 5" barrel. Since velocity is critical to expansion of the hollowpoint rounds and since expansion can be iffy in handgun ammo, this can be a bad thing. To compensate, the better way to go would be to use a lighter ammo in the 3.7" barrel. preacherman says he uses GS 185 gr. +P ammo. I prefer Speer Gold Dot 185s. Both seem to be good performers out of shorter barrels.
Note that one of the drawbacks of shorter barrels is the aspect that since .45 acp ammo is designed for 5" barrels and since many defensive rounds have some fairly impressive flash from 5" barrels, the flash out of a shorter barrel can be significantly brighter since more powder has the chance to burn outside the barrel.
M2 Carbine uses Aguila IQ ammo in his 3" derringer. The telephone book tests he show do look impressive, and they would be if you were fighting wet phonebooks. The issue here is that phonebooks are not a good substitute for the real thing (human body tissue) or ballistics gel. Gel tests show only about 4-6" of penetration and that is not very much considering ballistics gel tends to allow greater penetration than soft tissue. The reason for this is that the lightweight metal does fragment into 3-4 pieces, usually, and each takes its own course. When the parts come off, they lose the synergy that comes with keeping the roudn intact, hence loose energy. This is akin to race cars that are designed (in part) to break apart on crash impact, each piece coming off carries energy away from the main part of the car containing the driver. Part of the result is that the car then stops sooner.
silicon wolverine said,
No sir. That is very much in error. Adrenaline does not suppress sound or sight for that matter, although people may not hear the shots they are firing and may have tunnel vision. Shots not being heard is called audio exclusion. Basically, some or all sounds may be 'ignored' by the brain under stress. This does not, however, protect the ear from hearing damage. In regard to vision, tunnel vision may appear to reduce a person's sight, but the rods and cones in the eye can still be burned out if you stare at the sun if you have adrenaline tunnel vision.
In both cases, the damage is physical, not mental.
M2 Carbine
member
Browns Fan
Does aguila make a similar round for 9mm?
-----------------------------------------------------
Yes. I'm not a big fan of the 9mm because the pieces aren't very large. When the 45 fragments, the pieces are still quite large and from what I've seen they do a lot of damage.
This morning I shot some 9mm.
I don't have an opinion one way or the other about shooting wet phone books, except it's interesting.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532676
As has already been said, I don't think you can go wrong with most of the name brand 45 defense ammo but from what I've seen, short of someone being shot with the Aguila 45, which I haven't seen, I'll carry it in all my 45ACP pistols.
Does aguila make a similar round for 9mm?
-----------------------------------------------------
Yes. I'm not a big fan of the 9mm because the pieces aren't very large. When the 45 fragments, the pieces are still quite large and from what I've seen they do a lot of damage.
This morning I shot some 9mm.
I don't have an opinion one way or the other about shooting wet phone books, except it's interesting.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532676
As has already been said, I don't think you can go wrong with most of the name brand 45 defense ammo but from what I've seen, short of someone being shot with the Aguila 45, which I haven't seen, I'll carry it in all my 45ACP pistols.
Last edited:
CSA 357
Member
WINCHESTER RANGERS IN MY GLOCK 30 AND MY SPRINGFIELD 1911, BUT I WOULD NOT FEEL UNDER GUNED WITH FMJ IN A 45 IT GOES IN .451 COMES OUT .451 GOES THREW MEAT AND BONE, IM A BIG FAN OF BIG BULLETS! *CSA*
My idea was to carry something I could afford to shoot a little. At almost $1.00 for each round all the super premium brands are out. I found Black Hills remanufactured at my local shoop for about $20/ 50 rounds. They feed perfectly. Now do they kill "stop" people. Well I have tried it yet
I'm with CSA 357, (and not just cause he's a fellow Alabamian, God Bless him). I carry 230 gr ball ammo in my Kimber Compact Stainless. Usually Speer Lawman, but sometimes Winchester. Not sure I need a 45 cal bullet to get bigger. Have heard 45 hollow points sometimes fail to expand anyway, and nothing is more reliable in an auto than ball ammo. I'm sure some of you have a particular expanding bullet that functions well in your peice, but you never hear the gunwriters warning you to "make sure ball ammo functions okay in your 45". Makes you wonder if you're having good results with your hollow points, if you just haven't had them malfunction yet. I like penetration. I carry my 45 during primitive weapons seasons in black bear country as well as for personal protection from BGs. Don't want to swap ammo around depending on what I'm doing that day. I know......the 45 ACP is light for bears, but I just can't hide my 44 Mag for concealed carry.
brewer90
Member
torrejon224
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 55
I stagger my 1911 mags with Federal EFMJs in the 200+p tac load and the Federal 230 HSTs which is awesome stuff. Between the two I'll be able to punch thru just about anything! Use the Aquila IQ in my 9mm's.
I've been impressed with Double Tap Ammo's .45 offerings. They use the proven Speer Gold Dot bullet, driven at a bit higher velocities than most other company's loads, and they do it without +P pressures.
What amazes me the most is their performance from shorter barrels. In my Bersa Mini Firestorm .45 ACP, I'm getting mid 900's for the 230 grain load from the 3.6 inch barrel. That's the velocity that most companies are getting with +P loads in 5 inch barrels! It's very accurate ammo also.
Their gelatin results look good too, for those who put faith in such things. You can check that out at: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=336612
What amazes me the most is their performance from shorter barrels. In my Bersa Mini Firestorm .45 ACP, I'm getting mid 900's for the 230 grain load from the 3.6 inch barrel. That's the velocity that most companies are getting with +P loads in 5 inch barrels! It's very accurate ammo also.
Their gelatin results look good too, for those who put faith in such things. You can check that out at: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=336612
MICHAEL T
Member
CorBon DPX the only way to go . I have in my Commander that I carry wouldn't leave home with out them.
M2 Carbine
member
I recently received a catalog from CDNN Sports that has Taurus 45ACP "DPX" type ammo.
It's advertised as using the Barnes Bullet. Apparently the same bullet as Cor Bon is using.
I tried that bullet some time back. It's impressive.
It's advertised as using the Barnes Bullet. Apparently the same bullet as Cor Bon is using.
I tried that bullet some time back. It's impressive.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
the best .45ACP loads for CC/security/duty use
Hello
For standard concealed carry use or duty use(police/security/etc) I would use the Winchester Ranger T 230gr(gr-grain) JHPs. If not available I'd get the Speer Gold dot bonded core 230gr JHPs or the Remington Golden Saber bonded 230gr JHPs. I've heard Massad Ayoob(a well known firearms trainer/expert) say the CCI-Speer Lawman 200gr JHPs were good for .45acp pistols(like the 1911a1 models) for many years but some may need some gunsmith work in insure 100% smooth feeding. This "flying ashtray" load was highly rated until the Ranger T 230gr JHPs came out.
If you plan to use the .45ACP for home defense or will be in large urban areas or working in places with many people(malls/court-office buildings/schools/etc) you may want to check out the frangible loads like MagSafe, CorBon-Glaser Silver, and/or the new ExtremeShock loads. These rounds are designed not to zip through human flesh and will burst on impact. This will reduce the risk to other bystanders. The loads have high kinetic energy levels and smoke out of .45acp barrels because of the lightweight designs. NOTE: these "exotic loads" are hard to find and can cost a lot of $$$ but are worth it for some environments.
I'd also consider carrying the Federal EFMJ(expanding full metal jacket) design in .45acp for your spare mags or use good factory fresh 230gr FMJ loads from a top factory(Winchester/Remington/etc) for reload use. If you are in a firefight and need to re-load, you want .45acp rounds that will feed 100%, punch through things like wood, metal, glass, etc. .45ACP hollowpoints or exotic loads may not do it. I would not want to be in a gunfight and have my .45acp jam when I was on my last magazine.
Also note these important tips:
DO NOT carry handloads or reloads for CC/duty/home protection use.
Carry at least one spare magazine with you if you use a .45acp pistol.
Check your carry/duty ammo often and make sure it is clean(no dirt/grit/lint/etc). IT MAY SAVE YOUR LIFE SOMEDAY!
All the best;
RS
Hello
For standard concealed carry use or duty use(police/security/etc) I would use the Winchester Ranger T 230gr(gr-grain) JHPs. If not available I'd get the Speer Gold dot bonded core 230gr JHPs or the Remington Golden Saber bonded 230gr JHPs. I've heard Massad Ayoob(a well known firearms trainer/expert) say the CCI-Speer Lawman 200gr JHPs were good for .45acp pistols(like the 1911a1 models) for many years but some may need some gunsmith work in insure 100% smooth feeding. This "flying ashtray" load was highly rated until the Ranger T 230gr JHPs came out.
If you plan to use the .45ACP for home defense or will be in large urban areas or working in places with many people(malls/court-office buildings/schools/etc) you may want to check out the frangible loads like MagSafe, CorBon-Glaser Silver, and/or the new ExtremeShock loads. These rounds are designed not to zip through human flesh and will burst on impact. This will reduce the risk to other bystanders. The loads have high kinetic energy levels and smoke out of .45acp barrels because of the lightweight designs. NOTE: these "exotic loads" are hard to find and can cost a lot of $$$ but are worth it for some environments.
I'd also consider carrying the Federal EFMJ(expanding full metal jacket) design in .45acp for your spare mags or use good factory fresh 230gr FMJ loads from a top factory(Winchester/Remington/etc) for reload use. If you are in a firefight and need to re-load, you want .45acp rounds that will feed 100%, punch through things like wood, metal, glass, etc. .45ACP hollowpoints or exotic loads may not do it. I would not want to be in a gunfight and have my .45acp jam when I was on my last magazine.
Also note these important tips:
DO NOT carry handloads or reloads for CC/duty/home protection use.
Carry at least one spare magazine with you if you use a .45acp pistol.
Check your carry/duty ammo often and make sure it is clean(no dirt/grit/lint/etc). IT MAY SAVE YOUR LIFE SOMEDAY!
All the best;
RS
p35
Member
And now for something completely different-
Wal-Mart sells Remington/UMC 230 grain JHPs for around $25/100. I don't have much way to test them, but it's a deep, wide hollowpoint. I like them. I believe the WWB 230 grain JHPs did well when jello tested, too. IMHO the practical difference between one of those and say, DPX for over a dollar a shot is minimal, and certainly far less important than putting it in the right place. I load my P97 with the Remingtons and shoot it a lot.
Wal-Mart sells Remington/UMC 230 grain JHPs for around $25/100. I don't have much way to test them, but it's a deep, wide hollowpoint. I like them. I believe the WWB 230 grain JHPs did well when jello tested, too. IMHO the practical difference between one of those and say, DPX for over a dollar a shot is minimal, and certainly far less important than putting it in the right place. I load my P97 with the Remingtons and shoot it a lot.
Hot brass
Member
Whats in your gun.
- Status