Nightcrawler
Member
Been thinking. (Oh no...)
With a 10mm gun, you get loads from mild .40S&W level stuff to big powerful loudenboomers that are suitable for deer and small bear.
With a .45ACP suitable for use with .45 Super (such as a USP, or, as I found, my CZ-97) you get all of the wide range of .45ACP loads, .45ACP +P loads, and the .45 Super loads.
Maybe most ammo manufacturers aren't that creative with their 10mm defensive stuff. Most of it is fairly unimpressive, equal to .45ACP +P.
Look at Cor-Bon's numbers:
10MM 135gr JHP, 1400fps/588ftlbs
10MM 150gr JHP, 1325fps/585ftlbs
10MM 165gr JHP, 1250fps/573ftlbs
45ACP +P 165gr JHP, 1250fps/573ftlbs
45ACP +P 185gr JHP, 1150fps/543ftlbs
45ACP +P 200gr JHP, 1050fps/490ftlbs
45ACP +P 230gr JHP, 950fps/461ftlbs
The Cor-Bon 10mm 165gr load has the exact same muzzle velocity as their .45ACP 165gr load, with identical amounts of kinetic energy. The .45 makes a bigger hole to boot. And Cor-Bon doesn't load any of the heavier 10mm bullets in their defensive lineup.
Now, Cor-Bon doesn't load .45 Super, so I'll compare Cor-Bon's 10mm hunting loads with Buffalo Bore's .45 Super.
10MM 180gr BCSP, 1320fps/696ftlbs
10MM 200gr RNPN, 1200fps/640ftlbs
vs.
.45 SUPER 185 gr. JHP @1300 fps (694 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 200 gr. JHP @ 1200 fps (639 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 230 gr. JHP @1100 fps (618 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 230 gr. FMJFN @ 1100 fps (618 ft. lbs.)
Buffalo Bore's 185 grain and 200 grain loads are virtually identical in performance to Cor-Bon's 10mm loads in the same bullet weight.
However, the .45 Super shooter has the advantage of the 230 grain bullets, if he should want them.
However again, the 10mm shooter has the advantage of the lighter, 135 and 150 grain bullets, if he should want THEM. Truth, 10mm has a wider range of bullet weights than .45, 135 grain through 200 grain, whereas .45 is only 165 grain through 230 grain. (Not including .45 Colt, Casull, etc. in this assertion, of course.)
So, does 10mm offer any advantage over the .45ACP/Super combination? Ammo availability, some might say. .45 Super and it's sister, .450SMC, are only loaded by three companies, to my knowledge; Texas Ammunition, Triton, and Buffalo Bore. The only .45 Super specific guns are expensive 1911 clones. However, just about any sturdy, modern full-sized .45ACP can be converted with little more than a heavier recoil spring, according to Triton. Texas Ammunition insists that this will damage the gun, and a special conversion is needed, but then, they're selling those conversions.
At least out of my CZ-97, .450SMC recoil was not bad at all, not much more than .45 +P, though the noise was considerably more. I've never shot a 10mm.
So 10mm has the advantage of ammo availability, at least over .45 Super. I think the .45 round has the advantage of gun variety, though. You have 1911s, Glocks, Sigs, and others that can fire it without trouble, and can fire a LOT of it with a heavy spring and maybe a shok buff. You have HK USPs which are tough enough to handle plenty of it right out of the box.
However, in 10mm, you have the Witness, imported by a company that hates customers, the Glock, which doesn't fit everybody's hand (mine, at least), the Smith 610 revolver, now with integral lock, and the Dan Wesson 1911, which is hard to find.
10mm can be found in both the Witness Compact and the Glock 29, though. Even triton recommends against firing .450SMC from any compact firearm. So I suppose even stout hunting 10mm loads could be used from a diminutive Glock 29, whereas you need a full sized gun for .45 Super.
Ammo prices for .45 Super are high. But then, they're also high for quality 10mm stuff; reloading is advisable for either round.
So, given the various pros and cons, which do you find preferable, and why?
With a 10mm gun, you get loads from mild .40S&W level stuff to big powerful loudenboomers that are suitable for deer and small bear.
With a .45ACP suitable for use with .45 Super (such as a USP, or, as I found, my CZ-97) you get all of the wide range of .45ACP loads, .45ACP +P loads, and the .45 Super loads.
Maybe most ammo manufacturers aren't that creative with their 10mm defensive stuff. Most of it is fairly unimpressive, equal to .45ACP +P.
Look at Cor-Bon's numbers:
10MM 135gr JHP, 1400fps/588ftlbs
10MM 150gr JHP, 1325fps/585ftlbs
10MM 165gr JHP, 1250fps/573ftlbs
45ACP +P 165gr JHP, 1250fps/573ftlbs
45ACP +P 185gr JHP, 1150fps/543ftlbs
45ACP +P 200gr JHP, 1050fps/490ftlbs
45ACP +P 230gr JHP, 950fps/461ftlbs
The Cor-Bon 10mm 165gr load has the exact same muzzle velocity as their .45ACP 165gr load, with identical amounts of kinetic energy. The .45 makes a bigger hole to boot. And Cor-Bon doesn't load any of the heavier 10mm bullets in their defensive lineup.
Now, Cor-Bon doesn't load .45 Super, so I'll compare Cor-Bon's 10mm hunting loads with Buffalo Bore's .45 Super.
10MM 180gr BCSP, 1320fps/696ftlbs
10MM 200gr RNPN, 1200fps/640ftlbs
vs.
.45 SUPER 185 gr. JHP @1300 fps (694 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 200 gr. JHP @ 1200 fps (639 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 230 gr. JHP @1100 fps (618 ft. lbs.)
.45 SUPER 230 gr. FMJFN @ 1100 fps (618 ft. lbs.)
Buffalo Bore's 185 grain and 200 grain loads are virtually identical in performance to Cor-Bon's 10mm loads in the same bullet weight.
However, the .45 Super shooter has the advantage of the 230 grain bullets, if he should want them.
However again, the 10mm shooter has the advantage of the lighter, 135 and 150 grain bullets, if he should want THEM. Truth, 10mm has a wider range of bullet weights than .45, 135 grain through 200 grain, whereas .45 is only 165 grain through 230 grain. (Not including .45 Colt, Casull, etc. in this assertion, of course.)
So, does 10mm offer any advantage over the .45ACP/Super combination? Ammo availability, some might say. .45 Super and it's sister, .450SMC, are only loaded by three companies, to my knowledge; Texas Ammunition, Triton, and Buffalo Bore. The only .45 Super specific guns are expensive 1911 clones. However, just about any sturdy, modern full-sized .45ACP can be converted with little more than a heavier recoil spring, according to Triton. Texas Ammunition insists that this will damage the gun, and a special conversion is needed, but then, they're selling those conversions.
At least out of my CZ-97, .450SMC recoil was not bad at all, not much more than .45 +P, though the noise was considerably more. I've never shot a 10mm.
So 10mm has the advantage of ammo availability, at least over .45 Super. I think the .45 round has the advantage of gun variety, though. You have 1911s, Glocks, Sigs, and others that can fire it without trouble, and can fire a LOT of it with a heavy spring and maybe a shok buff. You have HK USPs which are tough enough to handle plenty of it right out of the box.
However, in 10mm, you have the Witness, imported by a company that hates customers, the Glock, which doesn't fit everybody's hand (mine, at least), the Smith 610 revolver, now with integral lock, and the Dan Wesson 1911, which is hard to find.
10mm can be found in both the Witness Compact and the Glock 29, though. Even triton recommends against firing .450SMC from any compact firearm. So I suppose even stout hunting 10mm loads could be used from a diminutive Glock 29, whereas you need a full sized gun for .45 Super.
Ammo prices for .45 Super are high. But then, they're also high for quality 10mm stuff; reloading is advisable for either round.
So, given the various pros and cons, which do you find preferable, and why?