Best Budget traditional"ish" rifle

[BamaBoy334]

So, I've never had a black powder rifle. I have been shooting cartridge firearms for over 20 years and a black powder revolver for a little more than 6 months. Recently I've decided to dip my toes in the smoke pole pond and can't decide on a good starter muzzleloading rifle. Since I have a fair amount of cartridge rifles I don't have a particular role that needs filled, although, the extended hunting seasons would be a plus. Because of this I would rather not spend a small fortune finding exactly what I want. I really like the idea of something like a double trigger Kentucky rifle with it's full length fore end and the option of using an adjustable tang peep sight. Hence the traditional"ish", since I can't find any historical examples of this combination. Any recommendations, comments, or concerns would be greatly appreciated. Am I asking too much? Am I better off trying to find a Crockett style rifle and adding a Lyman tang sight? Is there a way to fit a Crockett in a Kentucky stock?

 

[BamaBoy334]

I sincerely apologize for the long winded explanation. Just trying to eliminate any confusion

 

[DocRock]

So, first a word on double set triggers (DST). On a hunting rifle, I would pass. Most DST adjust to a maximum of under 10 oz. and that’s just too light for practical use hunting. A good 2.5 lbs single trigger will be far more useful and provide plenty of accuracy at muzzle loader range.

Next, are you after a flint lock or a cap lock? Flint locks usually take you into a much higher price range and, although I lack sufficient experience here to speak assertively and will gladly accept correction, lock time and flintlock ignition would not, in my mind, lend themselves to tang sight use.

It seems to me that a Hawken-type caplock would suit your needs and objectives better. Fitting a Marbles or similar tang sight and a Lyman globe type front (3/8” dovetail) would make for a very accurate sighting system and again, in my view, colored by limited flintlock experience, caplock ignition would be better suited to such sights.

There are loads of Hawken-type muzzle loaders out and about, many at prices less than the sights you may want to use! The older CVA and T/C versions, many of Spanish origin, up through some fairly high end contemporary models. Then there is the question of caliber.

 

[Armored farmer]

I believe that the Lyman Great Plains rifle in .54 is the best, most historically accurate production rifle out there.
It is available in kit or finished....percussion or flint.

My rifle from T/C is good. The Lyman is better. You mightfind a tang sight for one also

I

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

50 cal is gonna be real easy to find shooting supplies for, although now not so much, it's very commonplace. As to the ignition rocklocks take a little getting used to, it comes down to follow through more than anything, I know of several guys who used peep sights on them. The club I shot with wouldn't let them compete with that type of sight as it gave an advantage over open sights. I have to agree with Armored farmer about the Great Plains rifle. Pedorsoli offers a traditional Longrifle, might be worth looking at, occasionally a custom built rifle shows up on gunbroker, so maybe check there every once in a while.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

Depends on your budget. I have a Lyman deerstalker chambered in .54 that will shoot a flea off a gnats butt @ 50 - 75 yards. I was lucky to get it brand new when they supposably discontinued them from midway at 50% off msrp. You can still find them at a fair price used if you look around.

Also after a Friend of mine shot my lyman he also wanted to start shooting muzzleloading rifles. He bought a traditions deerhunter chambered in .50. It is every bit as accurate as my lyman and at a fraction of the price. For the price you cant beat it. Ive seen them used around 75 bucks and new around 200

 

[Choctaw]

I will echo both Armored Farmer and Blackpowderwarrior about the Lymans. I have had both the GPR and Deerstalker and they were good hunting rifles. I especially like the Deerstalker for its ease of carry in the woods.

 

[Gordon]

Another Deerstalker fan for actual hunting of deer. I use the .50 for great assortment of projos and its plenty of bore for deer. Heres one on Gun Broker # 901401391
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/901401391

 

[BamaBoy334]

Like I said the extended hunting seasons are a plus, but not a determining factor. I truly appreciate the suggestions for the deerstalker and the deer hunter as those were two I was looking at. The rifle would primarily be a plinking gun which was why I was considering the small caliber Crockett during these trying times where powder, balls, and molds are hard to find. As much as I like the idea of a 50 cal for the availability and the smaller calibers for the conservancy of resources, I like the idea of a 54 or larger since I am currently contracted here in the great white north of Alaska for the next two years for work. I don't have to have a no rifle for hunting here, but something about the idea of a Kodiak hunt with bp just makes the heart race. Like I said though I don't have a role that needs filled. The Lyman trade rifle is another I was looking at. As I said as far as budget I really just don't want to spend a small ( or large) fortune. I truly appreciate all your inputs.

 

[swg1]

Lyman.

 

[arcticap]

Because of this I would rather not spend a small fortune finding exactly what I want. I really like the idea of something like a double trigger Kentucky rifle with it's full length fore end and the option of using an adjustable tang peep sight. Hence the traditional"ish", since I can't find any historical examples of this combination. Any recommendations, comments, or concerns would be greatly appreciated. Am I asking too much? Am I better off trying to find a Crockett style rifle and adding a Lyman tang sight? Is there a way to fit a Crockett in a Kentucky stock?

Pedersol makes a rifle that's pretty close to what you're asking about but it's expensive.
It's their .54 Jager percussion target rifle that has a creedmore tang sight plus a rear sight on the barrel. --->>> https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/jager-target-rifle-percussion-model

Dixie sells the standard Jager percussion as a level 1 kit without the tang sight that could probably be added on.
It costs $1125. --->>> https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...ct_name/PK0146+JAEGER+PERCUSSION+KIT+54+CALIB

This page shows close ups of all the Pedersoli Jager models. --->>> https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/products/Jäger
Pedersoli does make some other full stock guns with double triggers, but most seem to have faster twist rates except for their Kentucky rifle which has a single trigger.
That has a medium 1 in 48" twist rate which can still be used with round balls. --->>> https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...oli+Kentucky+Rifle+Kit+.50+caliber+Percussion

The Traditions Kentucky has a 1 in 66" twist. It's mostly for round balls and harder to find factory finished lately due to covid I think.
They're considered to be very accurate guns.

It may be difficult to put a tang sight on some rifles that will work well unless the front sight is swapped out.
Hunter tang sights sit lower than the extended height tang sights.
Some guns have a shorter length of pull which can make it a challenge for some folks to use them, and also dependent on if you can find the right tang sight to fit your gun.
The Jager target model is listed at Cherry's Fine Guns for $1750, but the photo is missing. --->>> http://www.cherrys.com/ped_rif2.htm
And if it has a target tang sight it may have a smaller aperture than a hunting tang sight.
Sometimes they can be drilled out or the eyepiece unscrewed to make the hole larger.
Welcome to the THR black powder forum BamaBoy334.
Let us know how muzzle loading works out for you.
Everyone needs to start out somewhere.

Next, are you after a flint lock or a cap lock? Flint locks usually take you into a much higher price range and, although I lack sufficient experience here to speak assertively and will gladly accept correction, lock time and flintlock ignition would not, in my mind, lend themselves to tang sight use.

Actually Cherry's Fine Guns shows a Pedersoli flintlock model that comes with a tang sight.
It's the Mortimer Target Standard .54 on this page. --->>> http://www.cherrys.com/ped_rif2.htm

 

[4v50 Gary]

Lyman Great Plains for starter. It's the closest looking thing (but I'm getting Hawkin's Rifle book from the NMLRA).

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Another vote for GPR. Maybe with a Marbles Bullseye Sight???