Best Non-Lethal Weapons

[wheelgunslinger]

But, what do you do if a loved one would only ever consider ECDing a deemed "non-lethal" weapon?

Remind yourself that each of us has to take responsibility for his or her own safety. You take responsibility for yours, and that's why you have made the preparations you have made.
Gender, size, skin or hair color, race, education level, or vocation don't preclude anyone from doing the same.
In the end, it's not your job or responsibility to make their choices for them, no matter how much you may love them.

And, people only learn to choose and effectively use a means of defense when they want to do so. Otherwise, you might as well just hand them a panic button because that's all it will be.

 

[GunTech]

A crossbow (but not a pistol crossbow), a sword, or other crazy weapons they didn't think to outlaw
Extendable batons and knives
Pepper spray

I think only the latter falls into the 'less lethal' category.

 

[GunTech]

I haven't tried it on people, but I've been known to carry a cut down sjambok to deal with dog. One dog in particular, which is known to attack people, now gives me extremely wide berth.

I've hit myself with a few test swings at reduced power and believe me, you would not want to be hot with one.

You might find this web page interesting:

http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html

I bought several, but prefer the short one sold by Col Steel. Mine is cut down to about 4 feet.

http://www.coldsteel.com/95sseries.html

I think it would be hard to kill someone with one, but not impossible, but you could make someone wish they were dead.

 

[Wolfman_556]

A nice piece of blackthorn and steel-toed boots.

 

[shdwfx]

Back to tasers and OC, I am seriously considering these options because I'm sure I could convince my more passive friend to carry one if it was a gift.

(but I have no experience with either of these products)

1. the Taser C2

2. Kimber Guardian Angel

My issue with both are the limited number of shots (1 for C2, 2 for GA).

My question: is the C2 really that much more effective than something like the GA with a 13 foot range (or regular OC spray) to justify the cost ($350)?

 

[nitestocker]

i would go with the pepper spray and a good crook neck walking cane they look like a old mans cane if you take some classes you can use this quite effectively arm locks chocks throws broken bones. and with this type striking is very fast they dont look like a weapon look up fighting canes dont get the one with the birds beak or notches that makes it weaker because when they notch or make these faces in the canes it weakens them also the district attorney will no its a weapon get the standard type its the same Wood but looks harmless.

 

[LeonCarr]

Coming from a Corrections background, I prefer the the S&W 37MM Gas Gun loaded with beanbag rounds to pretty much anything else as far as less lethal stuff goes. Really knocks the fight out of bad guys, and you have a myriad of other rounds (CS, OC, Barricade Penetrating, etc) you can shoot in it. I know gas guns are pretty much LEO only, but similar rounds are also available for the 12 gauge shotgun.

To get a rough idea of what beanbags do, watch the movie The Hunter with Steve McQueen.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I bought my C2 TASER with laser for $270

shdwfx,

I bought my C2 TASER for $270 + $14 shipping and handling at gunbroker.com Make sure you don't use a "www" in your url or else it'll say it's an invalid site. It's like ebay for firearms and weapons. Just type in taser under the search, and it'll bring up various options. Some start the bids at $0.01, but all of those for the TASER C2 have a reserve price of something like $285. No one will sell their items for anything less than the reserve price, I've already tried bidding for $150 and $200 for a lot of them. $270 + $14 shipping sure beats any other price I've seen out there, and mine came with the integrated laser sight and everything else that taser.com lists that comes with the package (so it's not one of those places that leaves parts of it out to lower prices). However, I didn't see any of the leopard skin or camo C2's that are offered, just the red, blue, pink, and black. Some will offer it for $30 cheaper if you get the one without a laser (which TASER International offers also). I would make sure if you do get one, get one with a laser because lasers make it so much more likely you'll hit the target in less time aiming. Hardly anyone is bidding on any of the TASERs since most people are there to buy firearms. Some of them say free shipping and handling, but say that only applies if you buy it at the buy it now price, so you need to read everything, and what the shipping and handling and payment methods are. I emailed TASER International and asked them about the their policy about giving you a new one if you leave it behind and send in a police report and if you need to buy from an authorized dealer to do that. They said it does not matter who you bought it from or even if you're the one who owns it, as long as you're the one who sends in the police report they'll give you another C2 TASER. The cycle lasts 30 seconds and so that you don't have to wait around so that you can detach the main unit from the wires, they have the replacement policy if you send in the police report. There are still some TASER C2's for $270 with the integrated laser sight at gunbroker.com

 

[dogma512]

21" ASP baton (preferred length) Need some training with this, very effective and non-lethal if employed correctly, I do not know if you are going to be able to carry this in a secured environment without problems. I have used this baton a few times and can attest to its effectiveness, both open and closed. Avoid airweight models and cheaper copies. Lifetime warrantly on ASP and I have never seen an actual ASP broken. If you cannot train with this or are weak/frail/elderly, I would stay away from it as you would likely be disarmed and find yourself on the receiving end.

How heavy are these things? Is it something I could comfortably carry in a pants pocket when out for a walk or would one be better off with a walking stick? Better yet, could my 105lbs significant other wield it effectively? For some reason, that nobody can explain, tasers are illegal in my state except for LEO.

Are they any good books/DVDs on how to use them? I've been interested in them but was told to stay away from them unless you've seriously trained with it. This was by a MMA guy that does military training contracts so I assume he knows what he's talking about.

 

[ray_ray]

Are they any good books/DVDs on how to use them? I've been interested in them but was told to stay away from them unless you've seriously trained with it. This was by a MMA guy that does military training contracts so I assume he knows what he's talking about

take a look at youtube and do a search on ESP expandable baton,
its just some simple instruction videos of diffrent senarios.

 

[dogma512]

take a look at youtube and do a search on ESP expandable baton, its just some simple instruction videos of diffrent senarios.

YouTube <--- get your mall ninja training here

 

[dogma512]

Does anyone have an impression of Kelly Worden training DVD?

http://stores.homestead.com/kellyworden/Detail.bok?no=67

 

[hso]

Be careful with any baton/expandable baton. Some states deny you the right to carry them, some require training to be allowed to carry them legally and some have no restrictions at all.

If you decide to carry one you should get real training in their use. It is not as simple as watching a couple of videos and then sticking the thing in your pocket. You must train to put them to use. My opinion is that the best training is to find a good Escrima school and use the training there to cross train with an expandable. Next best is to get training from an LE instructor (or certified baton instructor). The least desirable is to pick up specific videos, ASP and Escrima, wear a dummy out. An unacceptable approach is to use the internet as a substitute for training. YouTube is for entertainment.

Keep in mind that batons are not a non-lethal SD tool. A strike to the head with an ASP baton can kill.

My constant recommendation is to get training. If you're going to carry a stick, find an Escrima school. Sweat a little and you'll have the best investment because you'll be able to adapt and use a wide variety to "sticks" to defend yourself.

 

[coyotehitman]

21" ASP baton (preferred length) Need some training with this, very effective and non-lethal if employed correctly, I do not know if you are going to be able to carry this in a secured environment without problems. I have used this baton a few times and can attest to its effectiveness, both open and closed. Avoid airweight models and cheaper copies. Lifetime warranty on ASP and I have never seen an actual ASP broken. If you cannot train with this or are weak/frail/elderly, I would stay away from it as you would likely be disarmed and find yourself on the receiving end.

How heavy are these things? Is it something I could comfortably carry in a pants pocket when out for a walk or would one be better off with a walking stick? Better yet, could my 105lbs significant other wield it effectively? For some reason, that nobody can explain, tasers are illegal in my state except for LEO.

Are they any good books/DVDs on how to use them? I've been interested in them but was told to stay away from them unless you've seriously trained with it. This was by a MMA guy that does military training contracts so I assume he knows what he's talking about.

I do not have the exact weight handy, but you should be able to find it on the web. They are all steel and very robust, but carried in a scabbard on the belt, you shouldn't have a problem. Jean carry in the front or back pocket should be fine, shorts/dress slacks probably going to pose a problem. I am a trainer and the fundamentals are very basic and straightforward, although I do not know of anyone teaching the civilian sector. I am going to disagree with the recommendation to take escrima and to try and apply the fundamentals to ASP training. In a nutshell, the ASP is designed for a series of strikes to a series of body parts, deviating from them is bad news and will take the ASP from the less lethal to the lethal category, not to mention make a claim of negligence a certainty. My advice for you is to contact ASP directly and see if there is any training available in the civilian market. I have only trained LE, government contractors, and private security personnel, but have never been contacted by the average Joe looking for training. For vicarious liability reasons, I would shy away from training anyone who doesn't have deep pockets or a hefty umbrella policy.

Can your other half handle it? If she has coordination, decent motor skills, a reasonable amount of hand strength, etc. it should not be a problem. The biggest problem I see is the bigger is better mentality. Sudents show up with 31" batons and cannot control them. If they cannot stop a swing in mid stroke without the plane of the wrist breaking, IMO they have too much baton. 21" is the optimal length for most.

 

[dogma512]

I do not have the exact weight handy, but you should be able to find it on the web. They are all steel and very robust, but carried in a scabbard on the belt, you shouldn't have a problem. Jean carry in the front or back pocket should be fine, shorts/dress slacks probably going to pose a problem. I am a trainer and the fundamentals are very basic and straightforward, although I do not know of anyone teaching the civilian sector. I am going to disagree with the recommendation to take escrima and to try and apply the fundamentals to ASP training. In a nutshell, the ASP is designed for a series of strikes to a series of body parts, deviating from them is bad news and will take the ASP from the less lethal to the lethal category, not to mention make a claim of negligence a certainty. My advice for you is to contact ASP directly and see if there is any training available in the civilian market. I have only trained LE, government contractors, and private security personnel, but have never been contacted by the average Joe looking for training. For vicarious liability reasons, I would shy away from training anyone who doesn't have deep pockets or a hefty umbrella policy.

I did a little looking into Escrima, which is very popular here in Hawaii, presumably due to the demographics. They seem to be really into machetes and striking techniques. It seems like alot of other fluff to go through just to get to the stick fighting. I've spoken to a military trainer here about doing a civilian class. Hopefully we can get something organized.

 

[inkhead]

I agree with the above posting. Be extremely careful with batons. They are very deadly, and it's easy to kill someone when your goal was to deliver a blow that would keep them down, or away from you.

A Single well placed blow to the side of the head, under the jaw, or on the upper back between the shoulder blades will kill a man. So be careful.

 

[JeremySmith]

I'm seriously considering an umbrella.

http://www.real-self-defense.com/umbrella.html

Main thing I like about it is you can carry it about anywhere without looking odd. My walking stick is fine around here, but would look out of place in downtown chicago.

 

[jhansman]

You guys have it all wrong. Here's what you need:


Stroll into your favorite watering hole sporting one of these and see if anyone messes with you.

One note: remove before visiting the toilet.

 

[sm]

2 1/2 year old boy

Poor kid, been sick, had to go to the doctor and get a shot.
Didn't feel good, needed a nap, and was feeling stomach grumbles...

NO!!!! I Don't Want toooo!!

I assure you, anyone that might of have ill intent with that kid and mom, would of had a heart attack and peed themselves.

I know this as I jumped, and I was two aisles over, the mom dropped soup cans, and there was this "crash-bang-boom" of buggies in the grocery store.

I'd get a 2 1/2 year old and wag this non-lethal weapon around. *wink*

Poor kid...he knew what he did, and he had the most sincere apology to his mom, and other folks including me.

Use Enough Brat

 

[xrey]

Isn't it redundant, "non-lethal-weapon". It's either a weapon or not. Can a water gun with sulfuric acid inside be considered a weapon? Only if it burns.

 

[dogma512]

I'm seriously considering an umbrella.

http://www.real-self-defense.com/umbrella.html

That thing looks great. The price tag, however, is outrageous.

 

[hso]

The price tag, however, is outrageous.

Oh yeah?

Try £195.00 for a solid hickory Umbrella Cane from the UK. ($396)

http://www.james-smith.co.uk/acatalog/The__Solid_Stick_Umbrella_.html

 

[pbhome71]

When I was in Chicago and commuting on a sub-way, I always have my 32oz stainless commuter mug filled with boiling hot coffee.

It always keep me warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[coelacanth]

I wish I could remember the post from a previous. . . .

"best non-lethal" thread. The poster said something about a guardrail nut on a piece of para cord - his comment was one of the funniest things I ever read here. Anybody else remember that one?

 

[dogma512]

Try £195.00 for a solid hickory Umbrella Cane from the UK. ($396)

That umbrella costs as much as a Glock. I'd say that's an easy choice to make but there's no choice to be made in the UK.