Best Powder for 40S&W

[300Whspr]

Hey guys, I got about 700 pieces of once fired brass from a buddy of mine... so I figured I'd buy a set of dies and start loading for the 40.

I've got a bunch of Berry's 155gr Flat point bullets on hand right now.

Wondering what the best powder is for the 40... here's what I have on hand right now that should be in the right speed range...

Alliant:

• Red Dot
• Bullseye
• Green Dot
• Unique
• Herco
• Blue Dot

Hodgdon:

• Clays
• 700X
• Titegroup
• 800X
• IMR4756
• HS-6
• Longshot

Accurate:

• AA#5

I've been loading up a few test rounds with Titegroup and running them over the chrony... but I think I'm a bit disappointed with the Titegroup... SD's >20... getting velocities of about 182~183 fps per grain out of my Ruger SR40C, and the accuracy... not the greatest... but that could be the bullets also.

Just wondering if I have anything better in the powder cabinet...

 

[kcofohio]

Are you going light on the crimp? Should just barely crimp, as the plated bullets are a soft lead core and tend to go undersize very easily.

 

[ljnowell]

I've used lots of AA#5 in 40S&W but I load 180 grain lead.

 

[JO JO]

I have used HS6 in 40 with good results but I have settled on WSF much cleaner than HS6

 

[LiveLife]

Wondering what the best powder is for the 40

Since BE-86 is not listed, of the powder choices you have I would say Herco.

Herco might be known as flaming dirt's cousin but it has been accurate for me and even burned clean (inside of cases came out clean after firing) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9344512#post9344512

 

[CZ9shooter]

PowerPistol is not in your list, but should be. I have had very good results with midrange loads and jacketed bullets. On the highend, accuracy is good, but the recoil and ejection gets a little spunky.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

LONGSHOT rocks the 40. Strong velocity with low pressures.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I could get by with Unique

 

[bbqreloader]

Love HS6 in the 40!! Loaded up some test #5 to try along with CFE. Did not like the impulse recoil of the WSF nor the 700X (besides metering like crap). Universal works nicley as a back up. Just loaded some #7 up also, but takes to much if you are only loading for plinking rounds.

 

[kcofohio]

I've been loading up a few test rounds with Titegroup and running them over the chrony... but I think I'm a bit disappointed with the Titegroup... SD's >20... getting velocities of about 182~183 fps per grain out of my Ruger SR40C, and the accuracy... not the greatest... but that could be the bullets also.

What unit are you using to charge your cases? Do you know if you were getting consistent charges?

When I was using the Lee Pro-Disk w/chargebar. I found that when dropping small (around 4 gr.) charges, Titegroup tended to bridge across oblong hole. A couple squibs later, I started using Lee's PPM, and now their Pro-Drum. The rotary type seems to have solved the inconsistent Titegroup problems for me.

Just some thoughts.

 

[rsrocket1]

Wow, you have an excellent assortment of powders right in the wheelhouse for 40

Alliant:
Red Dot
Bullseye
Green Dot
Unique
Herco
Blue Dot

Hodgdon:
Clays
700X
Titegroup
800X
IMR4756
HS-6
Longshot

Accurate:
AA#5

With the light 155g bullets you have in Alliant, all powders up to and including Herco will work fine with the slower powders giving you more safety margin at the top end. Blue Dot will marginally work, but expect a big charge and a big muzzle flash.

In Hodgdon, all powders up to 800X will work fine although you will need to hand trickle 800X and load it near the top end for every load if you are obsessed with SD. Clays is great for really light loads and marginal for medium speed loads. AA#5 is also perfect fit for 40.

I've found Titegroup to get me excellent SD's of around 6 fps, but that doesn't mean it's the best powder. It does produce slightly lower recoil at the same MV's than slower powders but there is very little safety margin with that powder and it's easy to miss spotting a double charge. Here's a comparison of a double charge of Titegroup to a double charge of Unique (8.4g Titegroup and 12g Unique in a 40 S&W case):


Unique is my favorite powder in 40 S&W because of its bulkiness and because of its wide loading range.

With the powders you have, you can load 3g Clays or Red Dot and get the recoil feeling of a 9mm with your SR40C or load full house 1200 fps load with 4756, but I doubt you'll want to shoot more than a mag full of those in a session.

If you are practicing at self defense ranges (<10 yards), just make a medium power load with any of the powders you choose and shoot a lot. SD's in the teens are fine but you need to load near the powder's max pressures to get much lower and it's not that important at that range. If you are looking for 2" accuracy at 25 yards, I can't help, sorry.

I've loaded and shot over 30k rounds of 40 through my M&P 40 FS and SP2022. My approach to 40 has been to load conservatively and stick around 900-950 fps with a medium speed powder (Unique or Red Dot). That keeps the pressures lower and the brass lasts forever. The good thing is that 40 brass seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper as people seem to be shying away from the caliber. No problem, I'll take it.

Good luck.

 

[300Whspr]

Using an RCBS Uniflow with the small drum. I haven't seen any bridging problems so far... Ive got the large drop tobe installed, every drop that I've weighed after getting the measure set has been <.1 variation...pretty much dead nuts on.

Ive been doing a fairly light crimp... I've got the new Hornady "American" dies... Adusted the seater 1/4 turn down after the crimp section touches the case mouth. COAL is 1.125", as per the Hodgdon data.

 

[LiveLife]

Berry's 155gr Flat point bullets ... COAL is 1.125", as per the Hodgdon data.

I have found many factory 40S&W barrels to have longer leade/freebore and particularly with plated bullets with rounded bullet base to leak more gas.

This was supported when Hodgdon published plated load data for Berry's bullets (under BERB) when plated load data was comparable to (and at times higher than) jacketed load data.

I realize while JHP will seat deeper than TCFP using same OAL/COL but below comparison load data for HS-6 makes you wonder - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

155 GR. BERB FP HS-6 Dia .400" COL 1.125" Start 7.8 gr (1,054 fps) 24,300 PSI - Max 8.8 gr (1,200 fps) 32,600 PSI

155 GR. HDY XTP HS-6 Dia .400" COL 1.125" Start 7.7 gr (1,035 fps) 26,500 PSI - Max 8.5 gr (1,137 fps) 33,200 PSI

While I used 155/165 gr FMJ/JHP bullets for match loads and Berry's, Rainier and other plated bullets for practice, many claimed accuracy obtained from plated loads never came close to jacketed loads.

I found if you load longer that your barrel/magazine will allow (even longer than SAAMI max of 1.135"), you'll leak less gas and your accuracy will improve. For Berry's 165/180 gr TCFP (FP) and RNFP (RS) bullets, I use 1.143" OAL which will feed/chamber reliably from the magazine for Glock/M&P/Lone Wolf barrels - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9344512#post9344512

 

[300Whspr]

rsrocket,

Thanks. For the Berry 155's, Hodgdon says 5.7 is the max... I set my max at 5.5, with all the KB stories with TG.

I'm really wanting the TG to work as according to the data, it is about the most economical powder for midrange plinkers.

Im thinking of playing with the crimp a bit more... A little more, maybe a little less. I like the feel of these loads, fairly mild recoil and report.

What is the consensus on the Berry bullets? This is my first experience with them.

 

[300Whspr]

Thanks bds!

I was wondering about seating the bullets out a lottle further... Ill have to try that too.

 

[LiveLife]

Titegroup ... What is the consensus on the Berry bullets? This is my first experience with them.

Im thinking of playing with the crimp a bit more... A little more, maybe a little less.

Think bullet setback and "Chambered OAL/COL" instead of "Finished OAL/COL".

Yes, there's been plenty of "Funny thing happened at the range today" threads where Titegroup caused KaBooms.

I have found .400" sized plated bullets to suffer greater loss of neck tension and bullet setback (perhaps due to softer lead/alloy core under the thin copper plating) when heavier taper crimp is applied so I use the absolute minimum taper crimp with plated bullets adding .022" to the bullet diameter (.400" + .011" + .011" = .422" taper crimp). FP bullets slam on the feed ramp quite hard and be sure to test neck tension/bullet setback by feeding/chambering dummy rounds from the magazine by releasing the slide without riding it. If I see OAL reduction up to a few thousandths, I am OK with the bullet setback but if it is more than several thousandths, I would not use max charges, especially with Titegroup or other spikey powders.

While I like Berry's bullets, for this reason (along with cost) for near max+ loads (especially for carbine loads), I prefer RMR HM plated bullets with harder 11-12 BHN alloy core and I do not experience bullet setback with my rounds.


Another thing to consider is do you use mixed range brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass?

If you do, I would suggest you stay with lower pressure loads using faster than Unique/Universal powders or higher pressure loads with slower burning powders. Many factory barrels have generous chambers and overly expand 40S&W brass (especially near case base) and regular resizing dies won't always fully resize the brass to fit in tighter barrels and reloaders use push-through resizing with G-Rx/FCD dies. But you can't make thinned case wall thicker and "fixed" brass looks just like any other brass.

Due to this reason, I reserve once-fired brass for near max/max loads and use mid-to-high range load data with mixed range brass using faster burning than Unique/Universal powders and moderate loads with BE-86/WSF/Herco/AutoComp/CFE Pistol as slower powders produce optimal powder burn/accuracy near the top.

 

[Toprudder]

Alliant:

• Red Dot
• Bullseye
• Green Dot
• Unique
• Herco
• Blue Dot

Hodgdon:

• Clays
• 700X
• Titegroup
• 800X
• IMR4756
• HS-6
• Longshot

Accurate:

• AA#5

Of those you list, I would say AA#5 might be the best option.

700x, and especially 800x, don't meter well, but I suspect 700x would be a good match otherwise, though I have not personally tried it in 40.

I am surprised you did not have good results with Titegroup. I've had good results both in accuracy and low SD using it, with Bayou coated and with Xtreme plated 155 bullets.

Of the Alliant powders you listed, I suspect Herco might be the best. But I have to say that I love Power Pistol in 40, and also BE86.

 

[Crashbox]

LONGSHOT rocks the 40. Strong velocity with low pressures.

A +1 here- Longshot is the ONLY powder I use for the .40 for these exact reasons.

 

[OilyPablo]

Longshot. Mainly because I know the powder. Not a ton of experience with the others, AA#7 would be my second choice if it was listed.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't see BE-86 as one of your powders, but it is another good powder to have for 40S&W, 9mm and 357sig.

I actually just tested a few loads today and will provide more detail in the BE-86 thread. Basically I saw some good chrono numbers with the best at ES:8, SD:3. My groupings at 10yards were .66", .87", .99" and some higher, but the higher one's had one flyer.

BE-86 is very consistent with 165g plated bullets and probably one of my best powders in 40S&W.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Best powder i have used for 40 in 180gr plated fp is not on the list. Its 6.0 gr autocomp. 1.125" OAL.

Not a light load but factory feel and accurate.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

You have several powders that will work well in 40, I like the slower powders like Unique, Longshot, HS-6, 4756 and 800x.

You might give CFE-Pistol a try, its been working great for me and if you have a progressive loader, it will meter really well. It pours like silk, lol.

 

[Walkalong]

6.2 Grs Longshot. X-Treme 180 Gr HP @ 1.140 OAL (Check to see if it fits your pistol) 62 Degree 52% RH.

Hi-966
Lo-946
Avg-954
ES-20
SD-8

Blue Dot works well too.

I gave up on the 155s, too much blast to suit me.

This load appears safe in my pistol (Sons), using my load technique. Use at your own risk.

 

[J_McLeod]

I've used HP-38, Longshot and HS-6 in the 40. I'll stick with Longshot and HS-6 as long as I can buy them.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

When I was loading 180 grain plated bullets in the 40, I loaded them at 7 grains Longshot, based on Walkalong's numbers, this is a stout load. They shot really well though.

I buy whatever plated bullet is the cheapest at the time, whether is 135 grain, 155 grain, 165 grain, or 180 grain, I load'em all. lol.