Best Self Defense 1911?

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I really think you're overthinking it.

There is nothing wrong with Colts. I owned one, it wasn't magical, I didn't run back to get another one, but there is nothing wrong with them.

I'm not a fan of S&W external extractors, but it doesn't mean they don't work.

Sloppy fit doesn't really make something more reliable or durable.

I had a S&W Sigma that was a nightmare. It invented new ways to break and malfunction. If people ask me how Sigmas worked for me, you better believe I will tell them, in as much detail as they can handle. Doesn't mean every one is that terrible. My dad bought a Springfield that was passed down to my brother that is great, just because you had one bad Springfield doesn't mean they all suck.
 
There's nothing wrong with the new Colts coming out of Hartford today. I'd gladly by more after my experiences with my last two. Both my 1991 and Talo CCO are well built, accurate, and reliable. I like their simple and classic styling and they just plain work for me.

Does the Sig Sauer P-220 have that safety in the handle like most 1911's if the sig was locked n cocked? or is there only one safety on the side?
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The safety in the handle is called a grip safety, and no, the Sig 220 does not have one.

Also, a Sig 220 can't be cocked and locked. Traditional Sigs are DA/SA, and have no external safety. Instead, they have a decocker. The safety is the heavy double action trigger pull for the first shot, which transitions to a lighter single action trigger pull for each subsequent shot. When you are done shooting, you use the decocker to decock the gun, restoring the trigger to it's heavy double action pull state.
 
Auto426 said:
There's nothing wrong with the new Colts coming out of Hartford today. I'd gladly by more after my experiences with my last two. Both my 1991 and Talo CCO are well built, accurate, and reliable. I like their simple and classic styling and they just plain work for me.



The safety in the handle is called a grip safety, and no, the Sig 220 does not have one.

Also, a Sig 220 can't be cocked and locked. Traditional Sigs are DA/SA, and have no external safety. Instead, they have a decocker. The safety is the heavy double action trigger pull for the first shot, which transitions to a lighter single action trigger pull for each subsequent shot. When you are done shooting, you use the decocker to decock the gun, restoring the trigger to it's heavy double action pull state.
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Which system is preferred or better? Or is it a personal thing? I like the idea of double action with one in the chamber like a revolver ready to go.
But cocked n locked would appear to be the faster of the two even though it's an old design and the trigger pull will be consistent unlike the first shot in the Sig P-220 if that really means anything. Does cocked n locked require more training in safety handling?
 
Which system is preferred or better? Or is it a personal thing? I like the idea of double action with one in the chamber like a revolver ready to go.
But cocked n locked would appear to be the faster of the two even though it's an old design and the trigger pull will be consistent unlike the first shot in the Sig P-220 if that really means anything. Does cocked n locked require more training in safety handling?
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For the most part it's personal preference. Some don't like the inconsistent trigger pull of a DA/SA gun, and some don't like having a gun with a manual safety that needs to be disengaged to shoot. They both require training to familiarize yourself with the weapon. With a DA/SA gun you need to train to not throw the first or second shot because of the difference in trigger pulls, while with a SAO gun you need to train to disengage the safety without thinking.
 
Auto426 said:
For the most part it's personal preference. Some don't like the inconsistent trigger pull of a DA/SA gun, and some don't like having a gun with a manual safety that needs to be disengaged to shoot. They both require training to familiarize yourself with the weapon. With a DA/SA gun you need to train to not throw the first or second shot because of the difference in trigger pulls, while with a SAO gun you need to train to disengage the safety without thinking.
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The only other thing is which gun the Sig 1911 or the Sig P-220 which one would be easier to clean? Most likely the P-220? and the Sig would be more reiable in feeding all type of ammo with out jamming. 1911 is more ammo sensative with ammo
 
The only other thing is which gun the Sig 1911 or the Sig P-220 which one would be easier to clean? Most likely the P-220? and the Sig would be more reiable in feeding all type of ammo with out jamming. 1911 is more ammo sensative with ammo
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The 220 is a little easier to disassemble, but neither of them is any sort of challenge. And as far as ammo sensitivity goes that is something you would have to test. You may end up with a 1911 that feeds anything and a 220 that won't feed hardball. That's why regaress of what gun you buy, you should always test it with the different types of ammo you intend to use in it.

Chose the gun that fits best in your hand with the control setup and trigger system that feels the most comfortable. If either gun happens to have problems, then send it back to Sug and let them fix it. That's what warranties are for.
 
Keep in mind that the 1911 design is currently being manufactured in hundreds of different configurations by almost every major firearms manufacturer, on multiple continents, and also by at least 2 or 3 dozen custom shops.

The P220 is made by 1 single company - Sig Sauer. So with a 1911, the variation in materials, build quality, fit-and-finish, accuracy, reliability, etc. will be different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the 1911 (as a design) has earned a reputation as not always reliable out of the box. Whereas the Sig P220 is usually regarded as the most accurate and reliable mass produced .45 semi-auto firearm out of the box.

I own both a 1911 and a 220, and I like them both very much. But they are 2 completely different designs, with different controls, different ergonomics, and their own unique pros and cons. I'd say that every serious .45ACP fan should eventually own both! :)
 
If you want a gun for concealed carry, understand that if you use it, there is a chance you won't get it back. Choose your carry gun with the idea that it's a throw away, and judge how much money you won't be bothered losing. In my case, I decided $900 - $1K was my limit.

So, I bought a SIG RCS for $859. It's not a bad gun, in fact it runs quite well. It's dehorned, has night sights, is lightweight, and fairly small. I'd have no problem throwing it onto ashphalt, into mud, etc. and losing it to the legal system as it is not "special" in any way - and is easily replacable.

I have Dan Wessons, Wilsons, and Baers - all of those guns are special in that they've been tweaked and customized. The idea of throwing one onto asphalt..GAAAAAAH!!!! Losing one to the legal system? OUUUCH!!....I save those for carrying on my ranch property or range use.

Daily? The SIG. I'd throw it away like a piece of week old old pizza and without a second thought.
 
Also, a Sig 220 can't be cocked and locked.
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Actually, Sig does currently make a SAO (single action only) model of the 220 and the 220 Carry. Cocked and locked, single action, just like a 1911. However, the Sig does not have the 1911's grip safety. Also, for anyone familiar with the 1911's slide catch lever, the Sig slide catch lever will take a lot of getting used to.
 
OregonJohnny said:
Keep in mind that the 1911 design is currently being manufactured in hundreds of different configurations by almost every major firearms manufacturer, on multiple continents, and also by at least 2 or 3 dozen custom shops.

The P220 is made by 1 single company - Sig Sauer. So with a 1911, the variation in materials, build quality, fit-and-finish, accuracy, reliability, etc. will be different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the 1911 (as a design) has earned a reputation as not always reliable out of the box. Whereas the Sig P220 is usually regarded as the most accurate and reliable mass produced .45 semi-auto firearm out of the box.

I own both a 1911 and a 220, and I like them both very much. But they are 2 completely different designs, with different controls, different ergonomics, and their own unique pros and cons. I'd say that every serious .45ACP fan should eventually own both! :)
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My thinking was since the P-220 is highly regarded and I always heard excelent ratings on it I would get that and then get a Armscor RIA .45 1911 ACP for around 400.
 
BluedRevolver said:
Ok boys, this is the big one! I officially have the 1911 bug. Almost 2 years ago I had a problematic Springfield 1911 and swore off them for good, but I can't resist!

I'd love a full size 1911 that can serve as a HD pistol and possibly CCW. My main requirements are absolute reliability and durability. I don't mind if it rattles as long as its well built to work and last a lifetime.

I've heard that new Colts aren't any good, and their machinery is worn out and outdated. Is that true? And I don't really want another Springfield. I want something American with a forged frame that's built for total reliability, not a target gun that's water tight. I don't need a bunch of frills and whistles either, I'll replace what I want after 2k rounds or so.

My budget? I guess about $1500-2k
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You probably dont want another Springfield, but have you seen their Mil Spec 1911? I have heard nothing but good reviews for them. Also take a look at Remington 1911's. I have their 1911 R1, and for $700, I'll put it up against a 1500-2000 1911 anyday. It might not be a Kimber, but its a darn good 1911 for the price. Ruger also makes 1911's. Their not many options of it to choose from, but they look great and shoot great too. I cant remember how much they are though. Out of the 3 I mentioned, I have shot the Remington and Ruger. Both are fantastic for the price. Solid, accurate, and dependable. I havn't shot the Springfield 1911 Mil Spec, but I havn't heard anything negative about them. But if price is not an option for you, Colt or Kimber. The 2 most expensive. Expensive isn't always better though. Give a look at Springfield, Ruger, and Remington before you spend over $1000. But in the end, its your $, your choice. Hope this helped.
 
I picked up my Ruger 1911 for $590 + tax. I also waited 8 months for it though. For the price I paid it blows anything else in the price range out of the water. Many people are paying over $750 for them. At $750+ there is some competition.
 
Another vote for Colt.
Forget the bling stuff.
They've had 101 years to get it sorted.
Carried one in the Army and had no qualms if I'd ever gotten into a SHTF situation.
 
Actually, Sig does currently make a SAO (single action only) model of the 220 and the 220 Carry. Cocked and locked, single action, just like a 1911. However, the Sig does not have the 1911's grip safety. Also, for anyone familiar with the 1911's slide catch lever, the Sig slide catch lever will take a lot of getting used to.
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I was trying to talk only about the original setups for the two guns since Stinger seems to be pretty confused about how each gun functions. That's why I said "traditional" Sigs in that post.

There's also the DAK trigger system, if Stinger doesn't want a safety or a decocker, which has a consistent 6.5# double action pull for every shot if you let the trigger fully reset, or an 8# if you let the trigger only reset partway.
 
Auto426 said:
I was trying to talk only about the original setups for the two guns since Stinger seems to be pretty confused about how each gun functions. That's why I said "traditional" Sigs in that post.

There's also the DAK trigger system, if Stinger doesn't want a safety or a decocker, which has a consistent 6.5# double action pull for every shot if you let the trigger fully reset, or an 8# if you let the trigger only reset partway.
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I do understand these are two totally different design of guns. The 1911 is single action only but the design feels great in my hands. Sig Sauer just the name speaks for itself in quality and is double action just like a revolver.
 
OregonJohnny said:
Keep in mind that the 1911 design is currently being manufactured in hundreds of different configurations by almost every major firearms manufacturer, on multiple continents, and also by at least 2 or 3 dozen custom shops.

The P220 is made by 1 single company - Sig Sauer. So with a 1911, the variation in materials, build quality, fit-and-finish, accuracy, reliability, etc. will be different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the 1911 (as a design) has earned a reputation as not always reliable out of the box. Whereas the Sig P220 is usually regarded as the most accurate and reliable mass produced .45 semi-auto firearm out of the box.

I own both a 1911 and a 220, and I like them both very much. But they are 2 completely different designs, with different controls, different ergonomics, and their own unique pros and cons. I'd say that every serious .45ACP fan should eventually own both! :)
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Unfortunately $$$ This seems very likely but I wouldn't want to spend more than $800 for the first .45 ACP pistol.
 
Stinger, if you are considering a carry 1911 go back to 9mmepiphany's signature line and click every link. Remember that every one of us can have a different mindset, no different than the Ford/Chevy guys but those links (and their poster) share the thoughts of professionals intimately familiar with what works and why. Those few pages are infinitely more valuable than any anecdotal evidence of what worked for me, buckhorn or mljdeckard.

While I alluded to buying a Baer, I only meant it was the least expensive option I would consider for a likely out of the box and long-term choice. There are many other less expensive choices that I would consider with a fair amount of work by a good smith. Not knowing your comfort or patience threshold I chose a turn-key 1911. I have met with great success having $900 1911s modified into $1,600+ 1911s but that's spittin distance from a LB. It would sting to lose one to the evidence locker but not nearly as much as losing a family member.
 
I neglected the R1, and oddly I posted a picture of mine in another thread, they are very nice accurate guns, also Sig is supposed to be coming out with a line to compete with Kimber, 3-5 inchpistols in the 1911 model, they are so similar there probablly will be several lawsuits. Kimber is responsible almost single handedlly of causing the resurgence of the 1911 pistol. Ayoob, Hickock and many others have stated this. 5-12 years ago, only die hard 1911 "old school" gunmen were into the old style design of the famous 1911 pistol.
The Hi cap polymer guns ruled, "and still do" as a hole. But those smaller compact and ultra compact 1911's in the fantastic color and metal etching designs, brought the guns back to the mainstream shooters. We have them to thank for the current interest of the guns that many of us grew up thinking about when the word "auto pistol" was mentioned.It was snubbies and 1911's that got me hooked. Then I went the way of the Glock generation, now they are back with a bang, "thank the 1911 gods". I just figured I would make this jesture of thanks to Kimber and others who saw the interest was there for giving us our favorite guns back with a larger selection than ever before.
And to those who never shot one, "you are missing something special". it's like a swiss watch,"someone already said that" but it's true, It's not a Casio.
Whichever gun you chose, "i believe I read an R1" you will be very happy with, as it's shooting at it's core.
 
gym said:
I neglected the R1, and oddly I posted a picture of mine in another thread, they are very nice accurate guns, also Sig is supposed to be coming out with a line to compete with Kimber, 3-5 inchpistols in the 1911 model, they are so similar there probablly will be several lawsuits. Kimber is responsible almost single handedlly of causing the resurgence of the 1911 pistol. Ayoob, Hickock and many others have stated this. 5-12 years ago, only die hard 1911 "old school" gunmen were into the old style design of the famous 1911 pistol.
The Hi cap polymer guns ruled, "and still do" as a hole. But those smaller compact and ultra compact 1911's in the fantastic color and metal etching designs, brought the guns back to the mainstream shooters. We have them to thank for the current interest of the guns that many of us grew up thinking about when the word "auto pistol" was mentioned.It was snubbies and 1911's that got me hooked. Then I went the way of the Glock generation, now they are back with a bang, "thank the 1911 gods". I just figured I would make this jesture of thanks to Kimber and others who saw the interest was there for giving us our favorite guns back with a larger selection than ever before.
And to those who never shot one, "you are missing something special". it's like a swiss watch,"someone already said that" but it's true, It's not a Casio.
Whichever gun you chose, "i believe I read an R1" you will be very happy with, as it's shooting at it's core.
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The RIA sounds like a great buy for the $$$
 
I just bought a 2012 Colt Commander, in stainless with black rubber grips. 200 rounds through a bone stock gun (with Colt magazines) and not one problem. 300 more to go before I carry it outside of the shooting range.

I've carried Les Baer, Dan Wesson, Springfield TRP, S&W, and Colt 1911s, as well as a 70 Series Commander that I spent over $1,000 customizing with Ed Brown parts.

The "best self-defense 1911" is the one you have found to be reliable and can shoot well. That will vary from person to person.
 
Speaking of this I was just offered a KIMBER PRO CARRY HD II STAINLESS 1911 45 ACP with fiber sites , Can I get some advice on this gun, You may PM me so not to interfere with the ops post, or add this one in as a possibility for his consideration also.I read good and bad about it.
 
gym said:
Speaking of this I was just offered a KIMBER PRO CARRY HD II STAINLESS 1911 45 ACP with fiber sites , Can I get some advice on this gun, You may PM me so not to interfere with the ops post, or add this one in as a possibility for his consideration also.I read good and bad about it.
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Kimber is not an option for me. Too expensive $$$. I have heard of better buys than the Kimber brand and this is for a brand new gun.
 
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