Best short range deer caliber?

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For that matter, I wouldn't hesitate to use my HiPoint 4095 .40 carbine, or any of my M1 carbines for deer at short ranges. With appropriate ammo of course.
 
WestKentucky said:
My .270 has nearly been retired because of its inconsistency. I have shot deer at 25 yards all the way out to 600 (stupid shot that worked) and from 100 yards on out it does GREAT, but up close, it's inconsistent. If I hit a rib it explodes. If I hit tissue it does its job most of the time, but still explodes from time to time. Even when it does its job, it's much like the 30-30 up close in the way the deer reacts. A long run at full speed followed by what appears to be a relatively slow death by the bloody ring where the deer spins on the ground.
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I suspect strongly that bullet construction is the culprit, rather than the .270 caliber. As a kid, I shot bunches of deer up close with .243 and 270. Bang flop. There is no way in hell a hunting bullet should explode on a deer's rib at any speed. As a kid, I also used to shoot my .270 into cinder blocks, galvanized steel, washing machines, and so forth, just for fun and to test the penetration. Cinder blocks crumbled and well over half the bullet was intact. I shot a galvanized steel pipe at close range too and the bullet passed through. Correctly constructed hunting bullets do not become marshmallows at muzzle velocity.
 
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I like guns so any excuse to have another is good enough for me.
I picked a 92 in 454. Never have shot a deer with it yet but it's there if the time comes.
I've shot deer and antelope out to 200 yds with a 14" 30-30 so I wouldn't get to concerned over velocity drop from a 16" carbine.
 
Eleanor416Rigby said:
Correctly constructed hunting bullets do not become marshmallows at muzzle velocity.
Click to expand...

This I believe could be misleading/misinforming.....a hunting ballistic tip (or similar) is constructed just fine, we'll save anecdotes for later but ballistic tips do work. Nosler themselves warn that using a ballistic tip under 50 yds is not recommended. They will still kill deer at distance. Fire one into ANYTHING at mv and you have a high velocity grenade that may or may not penetrate enough to kill depending on circumstances. With the .270 in particular, I got to watch a friend test the new BXR 134 gr on a frontal chest shot on a decent corn and alfalfa fattened whitetail doe at approximately 20-30 yds. THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE. The bullet entered midway down in her chest at a slight downhill angle. Upon immediate contact it was like what the Glaser safety slugs are supposed to do. There was less of a wound channel entrance/exit scenario, and more of shock wave of vaporization. There was damage from the top of her neckline to her brisket, separation of an entire shoulder and holes on each side of ribs. She still ran dead on her feet for another 30ish yds. As my friend said "I'm used to having 100+ shots, that's why I bought these!!" Based on the actual penetration, I would never trust these to penetrate heavy bone and any broadside or quartering away shots should still be placed forward of the diaphragm at close range. Velocity will always be the enemy of a bullet designed for expansion at distance. This doesn't mean that they are not constructed properly, only that high velocity cartridges need paired with harder bullets at close range. If not, there would be no market for partitions and mono metals established before lead free zones. Even a 150 cup and core would have behaved differently at that distance. My wife's .243 at 50 yds with 100 prohunters created a similar entrance scenario but penetrated much farther, I don't think either bullet/load combo failed at all as we were plenty busy butchering, but <50 is not where I would call ideal on a long range rapid expansion load. Only bonded and partition loads seem to fill both needs and yet deer are taken at all ranges with everything from .223 vmax to .338 tsx (and larger).
 
horsey300 said:
Nosler themselves warn that using a ballistic tip under 50 yds is not recommended.
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been there, done that
They didn't go anywhere, but it sure made a mess. :barf:
I don't hunt with magnums anymore either. I'd rather pass up a too long shot than blow a shoulder off something closer.
ymmv
 
Having used ballistic tips from 50-500 yds on game as large as elk I have to call bs on legs being blown of and such. I won't speak to bullets under 100 gr or smaller than .25 but above that I've been well pleased with the performance.
 
Others may feel differently but I don't use bullets that come unglued at any range on big game. Period. IMHO, if a bullet doesn't retain most of its weight, it's a varmint bullet.
 
What do you consider most? 50% 70% 80% 90% 95%.
I've got a jar full of corelokt, Interlock, and Sierra game kings and ballistic tips that have probably averaged 50-60% retention with the majority being found under the skin on the opposing side. The rest either passed through or remained in the body after passing through the vitals.
Ad to that the bullets used by family and friends and I have hundreds of examples from which to judge.
I won't shoot a bullet I don't have confidence in and if I had seen spectacular failures I would have long since switched. I've tried some partitions but was less than satisfied with their accuracy.
 
MCgunner said:
This thread started in 2009, may have, probably have answered it. But, my .308 kills just as well at 30 yards as it does at 300. Why would I want to go buy a .30-30 just because I'm woods hunting?

Just a thought.
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I gave my reason, I like guns. The more the better.
 
If I were a "Cowboy", Shooter, which I am not it would be my 1886 WInchester SRC .45-70. The 45-70 is a very accurate and versatile round. The factory load of a 350 grs. bullet at 1,200 fps can take anything out to 100 yds. It has low recoil and is accurate. The .45-70 can be handloaded to magnum levels or very soft target rounds.



http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.45-70+U.S+Government.html
 
357
45LC
44 Mag
20 ga rifled slug barrel
30-30
35 Rem

A little Rossi 92 16" in 357/44 Mag/45LC would seem absolutely perfect for your intended use.
 
CraigC said:
Others may feel differently but I don't use bullets that come unglued at any range on big game. Period. IMHO, if a bullet doesn't retain most of its weight, it's a varmint bullet.
Click to expand...
I'd add that neither tumbling or fragmentation are positive attributes for a big game bullet, contrary to the opinion of some of the proponents of poodle shooters for hunting.
:cuss:
 
X-Rap said:
I gave my reason, I like guns. The more the better.
Click to expand...

Well, I do have other guns. Don't really need to justify any of 'em with a use. I have an SKS rifle (.30-30 autoloader) I've killed two deer with. I have a .357 magnum 92 Rossi 20" carbine I've killed ONE deer with in 30 years. My go to hunting rifle, regardless of where, is my .308. I have a 7 mag, an inherited .257 Roberts. ANY of these guns will take deer under 100 yards and have.

A current fun hunting rifle is my CVA wolf front loader. Nobody's mentioned modern BP rifles, but a 385 grain .50 caliber chunk of lead at near 1800 fps (over 777) suffers no weakness out to 100 yards and it needs no expansion and you can eat right up to the hole. This gun will shoot twice that with a Powerbelt. And, you don't even need brass to reload it! Here, in my county of Texas, it also extends my hunting season via a late muzzle loader only season. I think of it as a 50/90 Sharps without the case.
 
It will be close to impossible to determine what the best caliber is because everything is relative and must be put into a context.
Some conditions and variables are clearly defined and could be analyzed objectively but some others while optional but might be important to the shooter.
There are many calibers and bullets, hopefully good ones and then there are many casings that can put those bullets on the target accurately.
If you want a brush gun then look into 35 caliber and above and 200gr and above.

I would say look for something not too exotic or expensive and something that has plenty of killing power to spare.
It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
 
horsey300 said:
This I believe could be misleading/misinforming.....a hunting ballistic tip (or similar) is constructed just fine, we'll save anecdotes for later but ballistic tips do work. Nosler themselves warn that using a ballistic tip under 50 yds is not recommended. They will still kill deer at distance. Fire one into ANYTHING at mv and you have a high velocity grenade that may or may not penetrate enough to kill depending on circumstances. With the .270 in particular, I got to watch a friend test the new BXR 134 gr on a frontal chest shot on a decent corn and alfalfa fattened whitetail doe at approximately 20-30 yds. THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE. The bullet entered midway down in her chest at a slight downhill angle. Upon immediate contact it was like what the Glaser safety slugs are supposed to do. There was less of a wound channel entrance/exit scenario, and more of shock wave of vaporization. There was damage from the top of her neckline to her brisket, separation of an entire shoulder and holes on each side of ribs. She still ran dead on her feet for another 30ish yds. As my friend said "I'm used to having 100+ shots, that's why I bought these!!" Based on the actual penetration, I would never trust these to penetrate heavy bone and any broadside or quartering away shots should still be placed forward of the diaphragm at close range. Velocity will always be the enemy of a bullet designed for expansion at distance. This doesn't mean that they are not constructed properly, only that high velocity cartridges need paired with harder bullets at close range. If not, there would be no market for partitions and mono metals established before lead free zones. Even a 150 cup and core would have behaved differently at that distance. My wife's .243 at 50 yds with 100 prohunters created a similar entrance scenario but penetrated much farther, I don't think either bullet/load combo failed at all as we were plenty busy butchering, but <50 is not where I would call ideal on a long range rapid expansion load. Only bonded and partition loads seem to fill both needs and yet deer are taken at all ranges with everything from .223 vmax to .338 tsx (and larger).
Click to expand...

I probably shouldn't have used the term "become marshmallows." What I should have said is that "correctly constructed" bullets (by my measure) will do their job (clean quick kill) at any range. If a ballistic tip can't be trusted when a deer happens to step out of the brush much closer than a hunter expected, then that's not good construction in my book. I realize that it's subjective at this point. BTW, I've used 130 gr Nosler ballistic tips and had exactly that happen. I had a .270 Winchester loaded close to the max and he popped out at about 20 to 30 yards. It was the third afternoon of cat and mouse; I changed my position and he didn't change his route. Frontal shot resulted in deer standing straight up and falling backward belly up right where he was without another flinch. I couldn't figure what actually happened to the buck because the damage seemed minimal and not in a straight line. I didn't consider it a failure at the time, but with so many other options, ballistic tips are not my choice these days.
 
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