Best shotgun stock to put in front of a jury?

[barfer]

I carry a pocketknife--I live in a city, with very few country folks or outdoorsmen types here and sometimes I get funny looks from people who see me using it.

For the last two years or so, the knife I've carried is a yellow-handled benchmade and although I still get the occasional puzzled reaction from onlookers, the yellow handled knife seems to get fewer negative reactions than a traditional knife and people seem to be more accepting of the explanation that "Oh, its just a utility knife--I've had one in my pocket since I was a little boy."

Because of a recent close-call, I've been thinking a lot about "what things would look like to a jury" if I ever had to defend a criminal or civil action in connection with a home defense shooting. Would the yellow knife concept apply and if so, would it have a meaningful impact?

This is a serious poll-before you dismiss it as being silly or stupid remember that billions are spent on image and advertising and it is because appearances count. I'm just not sure if they count in these circumstances.

So here is the poll--let's assume a jury of anti-gun California types are looking at three 12 gauge shotguns, all identical, except:

• one has a wood stock

• one has a black stock

• one has a yellow stock

All things being equal, which one looks more like a "home defense" gun and be consistent with your "I'm a homeowner defending my family" argument that will be raised as your defense?

Again, this isn't a question about what to say or what to do in any scenario--this is a on the same facts, which gun do you want the prosecutor to hold up as he paints you as some kind of gun-freak psychotic who killed an "innocent" intruder... ?

Let's also assume that this shotgun has no purpose for you except home defense (it isn't for hunting, your LEO or military job, end-of the-world or anything except home defense).

 

[KiltedClaymore]

use a pink stock. wont even have to use it for SD. the perp would be too busy laughing him/herself to death

 

[86thecat]

You have to survive the fight to make it to the jury. I would use the stock which would be least likely to give away my position.

If you put a piece of fluorescent orange tape around the muzzle would that prove it's not dangerous?

 

[moss590]

the black or the wood wouldent be as obvious as the yellow, dont ever give away you pos. the yellow one can do that some times....

 

[Dr. Fresh]

I think the wood stock would work best for the given situation. The black stock may be too "tactical" for the antis, whereas the yellow one is distracting, and the jurors may find themselves puzzled.

 

[JKimball]

I agree the yellow is distracting. I think you want to seem as normal as possible in that situation, and a yellow shotgun doesn't do that.

 

[3 gun]

I voted wood. It may only matter to one nut but that one nut may be on your jury. Even with that said I have a black plastic stock on my main HD shotgun. My field and HD shotguns are both Mossberg 500's. I really notice a reduction in felt recoil over the wood stock.

 

[M1 Shooter]

I voted for the wood stock.

However, that being said, it shouldn't really matter. A good shoot is a good shoot. If you were truly, clearly justified in shooting an intruder, and you didn't break any laws, it is unlikely you'd be charged with anything anyway, even in a predominantly anti-gun area.

 

[CWL]

Yellow stock means that you purposefully went out of your way to modify your shotgun.

I'd stick with wood or black.

 

[H088]

If your justifiable in shooting its not going to matter, if you aren't justifiable in shooting then don't shoot.

 

[Mp7]

...stick a flower into the muzzle for storage and display

no seriously, i think you are right in your assumption,
that a yellow stock will make a different impression.

 

[Sackett]

I chose the black stock. While wood might give you a very slight edge with the mush-heads (looks less tactical, and might be a hand-me-down from Grandpa), I'll take most every edge I can get during the fight. Better to have the chance to explain what happened. My HD gun is blacked out too and I'm shopping for a tac-light with a momentary setting. No laser sights though- gotta draw the line somewhere

On the pocket knife- I'm in the CA bay area and get the same looks when my SOG 'Blink' snaps open. It's great for everyday stuff and people sort of get used to it once they realize it's just a tool. They end up asking, "hey- you got that knife on you? I really need to open this..."

 

[Robert Hairless]

A good shoot is a good shoot.

What in the world does that mean? I see people say it over and over on the Internet but nobody ever explains who decides whether the "shoot" is "good."

There you stand with a smoking gun and a dead guy on the floor. It seems to me that you already are not having one of your lucky days. It is not a day on which to buy a lottery ticket, propose to the prom queen, or bet a bundle on filling an inside straight.

Is this the kind of day on which one should bet his future on everybody else saying "Hey, good shoot. Want to take a coffee break? The donuts are on you."

For me no shoot is a good shoot. Anything else is downhill fast and I want all the help I can get. If I'm forced into standing there with the shotgun I want Huey, Dewey, and Lewie engraved on it, my best Doctor Dentons swaddling me, a program of songs about mother playing in the background, and the best defense lawyer in the country holding my hand and saying "Son, I won't let anyone touch a hair on your lovably innocent head."

What I won't want is an anonymous somebody on the Internet telling me not to worry.

If that's not the time to do your very best worrying it's hard to imagine a better time.

 

[Nobody's_Hero]

I'd rather not shoot, but if it were either them or me/family member living to see another day . . .

Hopefully, a jury makes the decisions on whether shoots are 'good' or not. I'm not sure I'd use the word "good," though.
(Extra hopefully, it is a Texas or Alabama jury and not a New Jersey or California jury.)

Edit: +1 for the pink stock. I don't own one, though.

 

[mbt2001]

The color will not matter as much as the type of gun to a holstile jury. I heard Mr. Ayoob advise that a 30-30 or shotgun (stock config) don't look as "bloodthirsty" as the "black rifles" do.

Honestly though, it depends on where you live. I think for the most part, the pendulem is moving our way. People are tired of being victims and in the state the economy is headed, it will only get worse.

 

[O C]

Hairless, If you're standing there with a shotgun in your hand and a dead BG on the floor, what in the he** do you mean " It's not your lucky day?" Would you feel lucky if the positions were reversed? If it were me, I'd be buying lottery tickets, because I COULD, and HE COULDN'T.If you survive a shootout things aren't exactly going against you.Nobody WANTS to shoot someone, but I don't want someone to shoot me more. If I have to shoot, I'll try my best to be right, but I'll be alive to defend my actions. That's the entire premise of SELF DEFENSE.

 

[3KillerBs]

I don't think it matters enough to be a significant influence on my choices. I'll get what I like without worrying about what others might think about it in unusual circumstances. After all, my guns and I are going to spend a lot more time together on the range than they're ever likely to spend in front of a jury.

 

[jackmead]

Wood, if any anti-gun types are on the jury the black stock will make them "think" of an EBR. The yellow stock stock will make them think of that guy that painted guns "just so they would look like toys" forget the threat against you.

 

[GEM]

Wood - tell them it's a Dick Cheney special.

Actually, one would argue for wood as compared to black but the effect for shotguns is minimals. EBRs vs. wood stock Mini-14s have more of an effect.

The details of the case are probably more important unless you have a crappy lawyer and a bad shoot. There are effects of emotion evoking stimuli on juries, so make sure your lawyer knows about them.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Whooa, that yellow one's bright. Pass out sunglasses to everyone in the jury box.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you are worried about the color of your stock and its effect on the jury, then my guess is that it wasn't a good shoot.

 

[j_charles]

I voted the wood stock. If the question is only about which one is less likely to completely freak out a jury, then the wood one is more likely to remind them of "that one shotgun my grandpa used to go duck hunting with" than the "evil gun only swat teams and psycho killers need."

I think you raise a valid issue. I'm new to this arena, but I think it makes sense to at least think about the perception of those who will be deciding your fate in the unfortunate case of having to shoot someone in SD. You can argue the legality of good shoot/bad shoot all day, but in the end, how you come across is really all that matters (to an uneducated/ignorant jury, that is), IMHO.

 

[skinewmexico]

I use a youth model 870. Hey, I grabbed my kid's quail gun.............

 

[yeti]

If the actual poll question were worded, "which would you prefer the jury to see", I would have to choose the wood.

It's is in much the same way, had I defended myself with a handgun, I would prefer the jury to see a box stock 4in blue S&W .38 revolver. What says, even in this day of near universal police use of autos, "good guy, police gun" more then the 4"blue .38 revolver? I would rather the jury see the 'good guy's' .38, then have a lawyer show them a WWII P38 with Nazi markings, and try to paint me as a racist, or the custom .45 Tactical Elite, and try to show I was practicing and planning to kill the first person that gave me a funny look.

I would like to present the most benign weapon possible to the jury, but the jury is not my first concern. I would rather have the .45 in my hand, when needed, but I do consider that one day I could be in front of that jury. It could happen, thats why I would not have a weapon with "God's Vengeful Sword" engraved on the slide, or death's head medallions in bedded in the grips.

Living through, and winning the encounter are my top concerns, I will not handicap myself so I don't offend their sensibilities. Being realistic, I understand I still may face that jury, so, as much as possible, I would like to present them with a weapon that seems to be the 'gentlest instrument' of lethal force.

 

[hankdatank1362]

What in the world does that mean? I see people say it over and over on the Internet but nobody ever explains who decides whether the "shoot" is "good."

Wel, the grand jury will usually render a "no bill" or "no true bill", if it even makes it that far, in what we term a "good shoot," meaning, the shooter was in immediate fear for their life or the lives of their family at the hands of the shootee. Texas notwithstanding.