Best Side-by-Side for small people?

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'm only 5'2" and I don't weigh that much. I've been looking at Beretta -- expensive and too long, Ruger -- still expensive but also too long, Mossberg, etc. Does no one make a good side by side for small sized folks?

Everything I've seen is 26", 28" and 30"...really too big.

 

[Tamara]

Er, 26"-28" is traditional barrel length for SxS shotguns.

Re: Expense, have you checked out the IZH43's from EAA?

(If you're looking for a "house gun" rather than a "bird gun", the EAA IZH "Bounty Hunters" are also offered in a 20" length...)

 

[Jim Watson]

Tamara is correct. There are any number of petite women shooting standard 26" - 30" barrelled shotguns at skeet. The correction to be made for persons of small stature is in the length of the STOCK.

If you want a house gun, look at the various 20" coach guns as used in Cowboy Action Shooting. But the stock should still be shortened to suit your build.

The only EAA Baikal Russian shotgun that I have examined closely was rough, crude, and stiff in operation for a 6'1" male... and that after considerable polishing by the owner.

Look at the Stoeger IGA for a cheap double.

I don't know about the guns coming out of Communist China, but I am not really interested because I don't care to support the People's Republican Army.

Uh, what DO you want it for?
And in what price bracket? (Nice double guns are expen$ive.)

 

[sm]

As Always Tamara and Mr. Watson give great advice and suggestions. My experience wth Baikal was a "Bounty Hunter", one tube was 12 ga, the other 45-70. I'm 6' and 170#, action very stiff...not the "stiff" associated with the better brands that "wear in" difficult to operate.

As asked before I don't know your purpose, but if it were me I'd consider a good used Stevens 311, deals are out there and finding one in good condition, having the stock fitted to you would be great.

SxS get pricey in the Brand names, another option is an O/U , good used Rugers, Brownings, Beretta, ...etc., will be easier to find that fits and tweaking the fit not a problem. Use the advice of a seasoned shooter to determine fit...seasoned gunsmith to do the stockwork.

You know this but for that are not familar, the "apparent lead" is shorter with longer bbls. the swing is smoother and the tendency to stop the swing is less. One can mount gun to face jsut as fast with a 32" bbl as a 18.5" . Granted a shorter bbl has a place for HD. I prefer 28" bbls., regardless of platform, for hunting, and competition.

Stock fit is the key to good shooting. Patterning the ammo to the gun is next, and BA/UU/R is # 3.

HTH

 

[HSMITH]

Mastro, I have followed somewhat your progress through these shooting sports with interest, and you have my applause for sure. Your persistance and desire are commendable. Your pursuit of the finest equipment is without reproach. Let it be known that the only reason one would pick a SxS over anything else is simlply history and nostalgia. If that is what you are after then the advise given is superb. If you are after a useable shotgun every day then a gas operated autoloader ala the Beretta 391 and the Winchester SuperX2 is the far better choice. Please let us know what you want to do with a shotgun so that we might provide useful info and not just opinions unsolicited. Thank you, Howard.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Thanks for the replies. I personally don't want the gun for home defense. I have my Berettas for that and they're far easier to use and move from room to room with. The home defense shotgun is my father's idea. This would probably be for sporting when I decide which direction to go. I was very intimadated by my experience holding -- or not holding as it was heavy -- a 26" Remy shotgun in the store. I just find it amazing someone my size is expected to hold guns up at this length. It must get tiring on the arms....

BTW -- what is the advantage, if any, of the side-by-side over the under and over shotgun?

 

[Jim Watson]

You found a "Remy" (Remington?) 26" WHAT to be heavy?
The Remington 1100 and 11-87 autos, and to an only slightly lesser extent, the 870 pumps ARE rather heavy guns, with a lot of length in the receiver, which makes it a stretch to the foreend. That, combined with the long buttstock that keeps you from taking a normal grip and stance will make it feel even heavier.

The answer is yes, you are expected to be able to hold an eight pound shotgun. But it must fit you so that you can mount the gun in a proper manner.

A light shotgun will have unpleasant recoil if you are shooting it at any of the clay pigeon games. It is not like a hunting situation where the carrying is long and the shots are few.

A side by side double has NO advantage over the over-under except, as HSmith says, tradition and esthetics. The O/Us RULE competitive shotgunning. Good gas operated autos like Beretta, Browning, and those heavy Remingtons are fairly common since they cost less and kick less. Pumps are much cheaper but call for greater strength and dexterity. You will not find many serious competitors shooting pumps any more.

Browning has a lineup of Lady's models in O/U and auto. The stocks are about an inch shorter and the barrels are at the shorter side of the usual lengths, 26" instead of 28", 28" instead of 30". There are some youth models that have even shorter stocks and shorter barrels, like a Remington 1100 Youth with 13" stock and 21" barrel in 20 gauge. At 5'2" you might have to have the stock shortened even more.

As usual, I suggest you visit and get acquainted before you buy.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I'll be checking them out.

 

[El Tejon]

If you can find one, Rossi made a 20 ga sxs with a shorter LOP. Really loved that gun.

 

[sm]

Jim Watson , again nailed it.

Mastrogiacomo , it has been touched by Mr. Watson , others have said it, as well as myself...One of the best kept secrets is an 1100 in 20 ga.

I better understand and appreciate "where you are coming from and the apprehensions". I have worked with a number of ladies , teens and kids. I know a lady whom is 4' 10.5 " ( we must not forget that 1/2 " ) Probably weighs ...well not much even less without laptop and CCW .

I was able to borrow a youth 1100 in 20 ga. I had her simply unload the gun and practice with proper stance mount and bring gun to face. Just 10 times in the morning 10 at night. Then added swinging the gun following a " line of flight" in the garage. She build up the stamina and gained really great fundamentals...called me names...but she did it. I used light target loadsat the range...I mean I loaded them so light they would not cycle the gun on purpose, shot single shot to get used to the gun going off and whatever slight recoil. Starting out...worked up from there. Double ear protection also helps with "percieved" recoil.

NOTE: My Citori in 20 ga even with some light loads HURT because gun didin't fit, recoil was "snappy"...even the 28 ga bbl was uncomfortable due to fit, and against my wishes she tried the .410 bbl...even with no recoil gun fit really became apparent...she couldn't hit L 7 worth a flip with .410...reason why 410 is not the gun to learn on per se', and the gun did not fit ( well heck I have a 14 1/2" length of trigger pull on the darn thing) .

She then repeated the "training" with arm weights. she increased stamina and got to where she was doing about 75 -100 reps per day. Sh ehad better stamina than a lot the guys. Found her a used Berretta 303 in 20 ga that fit her better, did the stock work...and she became really confident , breaking 18/25 at skeet.

Getting the fundamentals, the repetitions for stamina , is the key. Last I heard she has a collection of shotguns and can outshoot the brothers bird hunting...gives daddy a run for his money, both on the range and afield.

I wish I could see the pic, I have a mind pic when she said " I have a pic of me standing in big brother's chest waders...you can't see me. Looks like the waders are standing upright alone...next pic she said is her pushing down the front and peeking over the top.

 

[SASS#23149]

If yu can shop at a 'large' gun store,yoiu will find that a lot of mfgrs. catalog,and some stores stock, 'youth' models with shorter stocks,.MIght save a trip to the gunsmith for shortening IF you can shoulder it better and feel more comfy with it.
I seea lot of lady cowboy shooters trying to get by with hubbys shotguns and they kick the snot out of them...waaaaaaay too long in the stock for proper mounting.
also, a double has twice as much steel haning out front as a pump or autoloader,so a little muscle-building might be in order.....repititous mounts and dismounts as sm said in his post.
Have fun,and shoot safely.

 

[sm]

Another thought on getting some stamina, helpful for any shooting , normally I suggest it for newbies and hanguns, found it helped with SGs

Piece of mop/broom handle tie a cord and use a light weight...tennis shoe for starters. Arms in front, outstretched and simply "roll" the weight up and down. Increase weight as you improve. Hands, wrists, forearms, upper arms, shoulders and neck benefit. Well we use these for all shooting regardless of platform anyway. Just a thought.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Good solid info above. Let me add a bit, hopefully as good.

As a behemoth, it's not hard to find a shotgun and load effective in a given situation that I can shoot comfortably. Pixies find it harder, but as oft as I'm trounced by someone less than half my size, it's not terribly difficult.

One of the lighter gas autos, possibly in 20 gauge,is an option,and mayhap the best. Fit is crucial,as stated, and I'd rather see a newbie of any size spend money on getting the fit right than even (gasp!) ammo.

The "Yute" model stocks will help lots of folks, but for those at the short end of the bell curve, even that might not be enough.

Wenig,the stock folks, carry a ladies' model variant of their "New American" stock that I hear good things about.

Rounding the toe of the pad and/or moving it off to starboard a bit will aid comfort. Depending on individual build, one may even want to try rounding off the inside edge of the pad. Women, as some of us may have noted, are built differently than Manly Men.

HTH....

 

[Traveler]

Well, given how this seems to have gone way off topic (SxS) I'll go back to the original question. If you are having trouble with the weight you will not find that any semi or pump action gun will save you. They will all be longer due to the length of the actions, and weigh more than a well built, lightweight, double gun.

The idea of going down in guage is sound, but not required, if you shop around. The English have been making SxS in 12ga that weigh less than 6lbs. You will find that these light field guns also tend to use the 2 1/2" 12ga loads for a reduction in recoil.

Also available in the less than 6lb weight class are 16ga and 20 ga. 20's are especially easy to find, but the 16's will pattern better. These guns can even go down to 5lb in weight.

As for the shorter barrel length, Churchill (a British maker), was known for his 25" & 24" barrels. In some circles guns with these lengths are still known as "Churchill pattern".

If you look through Double Gun Journal or Shooting Sportman you will see that the ads almost always list the weight of the gun.

You do not need to spend huge amounts of money to purchase a lightweight gun of better quality than you will find in modern offerings such as those mentioned above. You should be able to find a good quality European manufactured SxS that will fit your needs for less than $1500, and possibly even under $1000.