Beware the flower delivery guy!!

[Ric in Richmond]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,310522,00.html

Bouquet Bandits: Posing as Flower Deliverymen Robbers Steal Couple's Savings

Sunday, November 11, 2007

AP

NEW YORK — Robbers used flowers as a ruse to get into an 80-year-old woman's apartment and steal at least $60,000 in savings her husband kept in cash, the victims and police said.

Posing as flower deliverymen, two bouquet-toting bandits persuaded Carmen Nieves to open her door to them, she said Saturday as police released a surveillance camera photo of the suspects.

"How can I not open the door? They have flowers, they say (my husband sent) them to me, and, besides, they were young kids," said Nieves, whose husband was out at the time of the Nov. 3 robbery. Police estimated the suspects were between 20 and 30 years old.

Once inside Nieves' apartment on Manhattan's Lower East Side, the thieves bound her hands and feet and ransacked the house until they found the money.

"It was like a tornado," she said.

Nieves and her husband, Michael Rodriguez, 65, said he had planned to take the cash to a bank. He said he had mentioned the cache of cash to someone, and he believes that remark may have led to the robbery.

"I worked 47 years, and now I'm retired, and they took all my money," he said.



So what do you do for deliveries- real or fake?

 

[TexasRifleman]

So what do you do for deliveries- real or fake?

Don't open the door at all if I can avoid it, or open it holding a gun if I really have to.

The FedEx guy is about the only visitor I get that requires me to open the door and sign something.

$60,000 in savings her husband kept in cash

Nieves and her husband, Michael Rodriguez, 65, said he had planned to take the cash to a bank. He said he had mentioned the cache of cash to someone, and he believes that remark may have led to the robbery.

And of course I don't broadcast to the world exactly what's in the house and I SURE don't keep cash here.

Although a sad story, the mistakes here border on self inflicted.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

A buddy of mine owned a flower shop. I used to help out with deliveries for extra $$ during the holidays (Christmas, Valentines, Mother's, etc.). Since I was extra help, I drove a van rented for the job that was all white and with no name on it anywhere. I wore street clothes and didn't have any sort of ID badge/tag. In almost every case, if folks were home, they opened the door for me. As the deliveries were during the day, the recipients were usually at home women of all ages. Some even invited me to carry in the flowers to put somewhere.

I was amazed at just how much people let down their guard to flower deliverers.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Although a sad story, the mistakes here border on self inflicted.

While I don't disagree completely, I refuse to blame the victims for the actions of criminals.

As for how I handle this sort of situation, I don't. If I'm not expecting something I don't answer.

 

[308win]

Most people cannot accept that they are not safe in their own homes. Here - like many places - home invasions are becoming more pervasive and more violent. The local NBC affiliate is running a series on home invasion and people's response this week - the teaser for one segment showed a person shooting at an indoor range with the voice over saying something to the effect that people are going to great lengths to assure their safety. It will be interesting to see the segment as the local media has never provided an accurate reporting on the gun grabbers running Columbus.

 

[Pilgrim]

While I don't disagree completely, I refuse to blame the victims for the actions of criminals.

Who was it who said, "There are no victims, only volunteers."

 

[foghornl]

I do NOT answer the doorbell anytime without my GI-45 on me.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Who was it who said, "There are no victims, only volunteers.

Don't know, but whomever said it was wrong.

Look, you start blaming the victims and pretty soon you have this stupidity where someone breaks into your locked house, uses tools and tears open your RSC, steals your guns, eventually shoots someone with one of them...and YOU go to jail because you didn't "properly secure" your firearms.

I'm not advocating carelessness but acting like it's the fault of the victims that the guy at the door was a criminal and not a working class guy is just STUPID!

These people were careless but not criminal. The criminal actions rest solely on the CRIMINAL so let's not misplace that.

 

[plexreticle]

Criminals do crimes not victims.

If everybody in my neighborhood left their house open and their car unlocked with the keys in it their property would be safe from me.

Don't blame the victim.

 

[ceetee]

Not long ago I read a news story (can't find it now) where a single woman placed an ad looking for a roommate. When she was showing the room to a male prospect, he turned on her, raping her and ransacking the house for loot. It's a dangerous world out there, and it seems like it's becoming more dangerous all the time. It behooves all to do the best we can to educate our less security-minded friends of the dangers we all face.

 

[308win]

They aren't volunteers they are victims. To advocate otherwise is to weaken what should be an unassailable affirmative defense to be safe in ones own home.

 

[30 cal slob]

if you're going to keep that much cash lying around ... it should be secured.

the victims were foolish IMO - they flapped their gums, somebody overheard, so why should they be surprised?

 

[ZeSpectre]

They shouldn't be, but it still took a criminal to make a crime.

 

[goon]

No offense to any retirees but I have known many older people who don't understand how different the world is from the one that they grew up in. It isn't fair to blame them for being targeted.
Instead, we should find the people who robbed them and publicly execute them to teach a lesson to anyone else who wants to take advantage of the old, weak, injured, etc.

 

[Shooters Plus]

Goon took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Robert Hairless]

These people were careless but not criminal. The criminal actions rest solely on the CRIMINAL so let's not misplace that.

Good sense as usual, ZeSpectre. Gun ownership seems to confer a sense of tactical infallibility that can lead to unnecessarily harsh judgments of ordinary people who were victimized in the process of leading ordinary lives. They have a right to do that and aren't "sheeple" because they do, nor do eighty- year-olds belong in a custodial home because thugs take advantage of them. Thugs take advantage of much younger people too. Compassion does much to temper the superiority that gun ownership seems to convey.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I agree with some of the posts above... anyone keeping 60 grand in their house is just plain asking for it. Thats why banks with FDIC were invented. DOH!!!

we should find the people who robbed them and publicly execute them to teach a lesson to anyone else who wants to take advantage of the old, weak, injured, etc.

I like this idea...
I bet this type of thing is rare in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Noxx]

Making sure to forward this link to my wife, she thinks it's "over the top" that I don't answer the door without my 686 on my hip.

 

[Creature]

No offense to any retirees but I have known many older people who don't understand how different the world is from the one that they grew up in. It isn't fair to blame them for being targeted.

Yes the criminals deserve nothing less than what you suggested, but failure to secure oneself is not an excuse. While everyone has the right to be secure in their home, the world is not a nice place and to keep that much money in the house is inviting disaster. Old age doesn't mean the blinders go on...

 

[gunsmith]

not surprising

They let people know they have 60 large in their apt and they live on the lower east side of Manhattan?
These folks were volunteers, not victims.
I am a native NY'er and I bet they never had a bank account, lots of folks like that in NY, no drivers license either.
The crooks were clearly wrong, but the victims were pretty stupid.
I bet you they are voting for Hillary.

 

[JamisJockey]

This one peaked my attention because we get alot of deliveries because of the business we run. No, we're not drug mules.

Generally speaking, though, its one of the big 4 in uniform and a marked truck.
(DHL,USPS,UPS,FEDEX)
However, often during the holidays they deliver in unmarked rentals to meet the higher demand. And often after dark.
I tend to take it less serious than I should, unless an unmarked van pulls into my driveway after dark. Then I'm meeting the delivery person at the door armed.
When we move into the McMansion we'll be a little more secluded. I'll meet any delivery person armed then.

 

[bruss01]

They aren't volunteers they are victims. To advocate otherwise is to weaken what should be an unassailable affirmative defense to be safe in ones own home.

Who was it who said, "There are no victims, only volunteers."

Let's back up a second. The victims/volunteers quote is being taken out of context. We are not talking about legal liability here, but the much more esoteric side of living. No, I don't think the couple should be prosecuted for the fact that two men forced their way in by subterfuge and robbed them blind. But look at it this way... when the couple kept a huge sum of cash at home, they were volunteering... when they blabbed to "someone" about the stash, they were volunteering... when she opened the door while home alone to a complete stranger without any means of self-defense, she was volunteering... All of these were VOLUNTARY choices that laid the groundwork for what would likely have been a non-event if they had made wiser choices. They essentially may as well have raised their hand to the Universe saying "Pick me, pick me for a home invasion where I lose my life savings!" because of the choices they voluntarily made. People do not like to look at their actions that way, it puts a lot of responsibility on the individual when it is much easier and more satisfying to pin all the responsibility on the villain. I'm not saying "blame the victim" because there is a huge difference between blame and responsibility. Obviously, the criminal is to blame, but the victim shares responsibility for their actions that made the crime not only possible, but likely. Certainly not in a legal sense, but in a logical, causality sense absolutely.

In this game we call life, blaming all one's problems on others ultimately leaves one powerless to do anything about those problems. Taking responsibility for one's own choices and errors leads to the ability to make better choices and avoid errors, leading to a better quality of life. I much prefer the paradigm where I can make my life better by making better choices, rather than seeing myself hopelessly at the mercy of other people's choices. After all, is that not one of the things that the choice of owning a gun is all about?

 

[Fosbery]

Stupid victims don't excuse criminals. Criminals don't excuse stupid victims.

 

[rogdigity]

bruss01: very, very well put! the last 2 sentences are great. im gonn ahave to remember that.

double naught actually said something about how he had actually worked at a flower shop. i can relate to this as i am a pool repair man [no i dont clean pools]. i have been on hundreds if not thousands of properties in the area [i wont say wich city] and through out the county. ive even been to houses which have cameras panning around the back yard watching me walk to and fro, yet the home owner STILL come walking to the door, opens the door, and even comes outside with me. i have always had a tactical thought on situations and know that from the second he opened the door i could take control. often, only the house wife is home and are a bit more friendly when they see someone for a change and arent cooped up inside by them selves. to top this all off, once you start talking to people they really start opening up about things they shouldnt.

i suppose if someone was to come to burglerize you [or worse] you would have them on tape or even have an alarm go off. but it would only take a second to really harm the victom and be gone again. in most cases the home owner doesnt even have the alarm set anyways, leaving the path right open for access to the house. then theres the whole leaving the house thing...

i suppose im just rambling and my point is whats all the security good for if they just open the door? most lonely house wives, elderly, and even home alone children [sometimes as young as 5!!!], are more often then not HAPPY to talk to someone new and conversate and ENJOY the company of another.

i just thing more should be done to prevent the crime BEFORE it happens than just catching the perpitrator AFTER the crime. does that make sense??

 

[revjen45]

"I do NOT answer the doorbell anytime without my GI-45 on me."
I'll second that. If I'm home and awake I have the S9 + 2 mags on me. If I'm asleep I can reach it. I NEVER answer the door unarmed at any time of day. My wife is a competent shot and has the warrior Weltanschauung. Out in public I usually pack a backup gun also. I have enough accumulated injuries that H2H and running away are not in the cards, and I can't afford to get hurt any more.