Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
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Biden says EO is on the table...
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LubeckTech
Member
I am hoping any attempt at an EO will backfire on him by strengthening the resolve of the gun owning community and/or possibly promoting legal challenges to his use of the EO thereby limiting his power.
This quote from a posting on another website
'Is Obama really ready to blow up his entire second term using Executive Orders over this?
He's shown that he can't pass anything through a split Congress. He will have ZERO chance of passing anything if he does this. How about the budget? How about the debt ceiling? How about the growing concerns and costs over implementing ObamaCare and the health insurance exchanges? How about entitlement spending? How about tax reforms? How about a coherent energy policy? Are they really willing to get nothing done over the next four years over the reactions to a lunatic killer? Have no doubts that it will ultimately be the political calculations for the next four years that settles this, not the NRA or any gun control group"
'Is Obama really ready to blow up his entire second term using Executive Orders over this?
He's shown that he can't pass anything through a split Congress. He will have ZERO chance of passing anything if he does this. How about the budget? How about the debt ceiling? How about the growing concerns and costs over implementing ObamaCare and the health insurance exchanges? How about entitlement spending? How about tax reforms? How about a coherent energy policy? Are they really willing to get nothing done over the next four years over the reactions to a lunatic killer? Have no doubts that it will ultimately be the political calculations for the next four years that settles this, not the NRA or any gun control group"
dcarch
Member
Oh crap.
Cosmoline
Member
Bans by EO? Absolutely not. No way.
But there are things he can do. For example while he can't tell NICS to stop processing semiautos (they don't know which are semis and which aren't), he could order the NICS system as a whole to be taken down indefinitely for study groups and fine tuning. So no more buying firearms through NICS until the study group find out ways to "fix it." He can also do almost anything he wants to active duty military. And as noted he can do a lot to bog down imports. And of course he has enormous power over transportation regs.
But there are things he can do. For example while he can't tell NICS to stop processing semiautos (they don't know which are semis and which aren't), he could order the NICS system as a whole to be taken down indefinitely for study groups and fine tuning. So no more buying firearms through NICS until the study group find out ways to "fix it." He can also do almost anything he wants to active duty military. And as noted he can do a lot to bog down imports. And of course he has enormous power over transportation regs.
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marsofold
Member
The limits of an EO are whatever he can get away with. The delay between enforcement of an EO and any actual resolution of litigation before the SC may take quite a while to complete. In the meantime bad things could be happening that might prove difficult or impossible to reverse later. And the SC could betray us all at the end and give him his way...
Victor1Echo
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Wow, another thread on E.O.s. Remember, executive orders are not a way to make law. They are a method of directing the federal law enforcement agencies under the President's command (as head of the Executive branch) as to how he wants them to enforce discretionary facets of existing federal laws.
Okay Sam, but what about expanding the 1968 Gun Control act to include--etc, etc, etc,??
breakingcontact
Member
Although I don't like to see the gun community jump everytime a gun grabber says something I also don't like to see our community say that politicians "can't" do things. They can do anything they will get away with and if they stack the appropriate courts with enough of their "yes men", they can get away with anything so long as the masses are busy with all the distractions and lies and keep voting people into office who have no respect for humanity or the Constitution.
No.
It's amazing how many Americans think this is a monarchy where the President can order anything he wants.
:banghead:
If they are talking about EO, that means they know they can't get what they want through Congress so they are looking for other options.
It's amazing how many Americans think this is a monarchy where the President can order anything he wants.
:banghead:
If they are talking about EO, that means they know they can't get what they want through Congress so they are looking for other options.
I think they know that would be a court challenge they would lose. Since Heller/McDonald ruled the 2nd a fundamental right, there is no way a "sporting" test can be upheld, and might even come back with an admonishment from SCOTUS on arms and/or executive power they don't want to see in writing.
Biden/Obama are panicing because they are only now realizing there is very little they can do. So they are getting desperate to do something... anything. Before all the hype fizzles away.
# of executive orders per president:
Eisenhower - 481
Kennedy - 213
Johnson - 323
Nixon - 345
Ford - 168
Carter - 319
Reagan - 380
Bush - 165
Clinton - 363
Bush - 290
Obama - 139 (Through October 9, 2012)
Source: www.archives.gov
I do have to wonder, why risk an over-reaching EO against the one group that may be willing to call you out?
I do believe that the current president loves to use his power, and is arrogant in it. However, why not just assert control over the smaller groups that don't have the numbers, funding and the biggest lobby in the US?
Unless... he's really gunning (pun intended) for a fight for control over the biggest, most funded, biggest lobby in the US, to assert control over the rest?
Merely speculation at this point, but things to consider.
I do believe that the current president loves to use his power, and is arrogant in it. However, why not just assert control over the smaller groups that don't have the numbers, funding and the biggest lobby in the US?
Unless... he's really gunning (pun intended) for a fight for control over the biggest, most funded, biggest lobby in the US, to assert control over the rest?
Merely speculation at this point, but things to consider.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
The problem is even if the Administration stretches its interpretation of its executive authority, what are the options to correct it? Congress can not clarify its intent unless the Senate cooperates and the courts are reluctant to get involved in these kind of disputes unless there is a very glaring violation. Not to mention it would take years to resolve through courts and the same media that is paving the way for a banana republic would be the only way most people would even know about it.
SCOTUS, or even a federal apeals court, can knock it down in a few weeks. The farther he over-reaches, they quicker/easier it will be to knock it down.
The biggest danger is if they write a narrow law that chips away at our access to arms and EO's that are within current law. That will be harder to challenge/overturn.
Big blanket bans, confiscations, sweeping changes will be easily struck down and set them back from where they are now.
The biggest danger is if they write a narrow law that chips away at our access to arms and EO's that are within current law. That will be harder to challenge/overturn.
Big blanket bans, confiscations, sweeping changes will be easily struck down and set them back from where they are now.
Archangel14
Member
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- 596
They're scared and buying time. They remember what happened with the last ban. And they know that EO's will be challenged with great effect. Imagine the President signing an EO that orders the IRS to restrict certain types of speech? That's what any such EO's on guns will likely add up to....a restriction on a recognized, Amendment-based, individual right.
On the other hand, remember who Obama's people are: people who will push the envelope as far as they can, probing to see how much they can get away with. That's why our reaction must be fierce! Let them push....this will give right-thinking Americans the chance to really push back in the mid-terms!!!
On the other hand, remember who Obama's people are: people who will push the envelope as far as they can, probing to see how much they can get away with. That's why our reaction must be fierce! Let them push....this will give right-thinking Americans the chance to really push back in the mid-terms!!!
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
This is a discussion of Constitutional law and how our government works. Not a political "libs-vs.-cons", "R-vs.-D" rant.
There's a difference between what we consider a political debate and a legal question, though I guess the distinction must not be clear to some.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Oh? The 1986 FOPA is still LAW and it says exactly how one may transport firearms. He doesn't have discretion there.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not sure why this would be unclear, but the GCA says certain things -- SPECIFIC things. That's the law. Neither the President, nor anyone else but Congress can change what it says, in other words "expand" it. He may be able to make small changes in how certain things are administered, but he cannot change the fundamental text of the law -- what's covered and what isn't.
Landric
Member
The real question is, is the president willing to cede all of congress to pro-gun republicans in 2014 in order to either make a series of EOs or to get some ban legislation pushed through congress that even he and the most ardent supporters of gun control know won't have any measurable effect on crime and violence?
The first (and hopefully only) AWB was one of the primary factors that cost the Democrats congress in 1994, and I am sure they remember it.
The first (and hopefully only) AWB was one of the primary factors that cost the Democrats congress in 1994, and I am sure they remember it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
They knew all along there was "very little they can do." It's the nature of their offices. They're politicians and the biggest task of any politician is play-acting for his constituents.
When Mr. Biden says that the President is "working hard to find solutions...yadda yadda..." that's just an extension of the picturesquely furrowed brow and concerned demeanor that tells his supporters "he's doing all he can...wow, look how serious he is!"
All theater.
mljdeckard
Member
Biden also assures us that the president has a very big stick. I don't think BIDEN even knows what can and cannot be done by executive order.
Yoda
Member
Content of potential "executiver orders"
Things Obama could TRY to do via exec order (aka, "We can't wait for Congress to act.")
* Instruct FBI to automjatically disapprove NICS checks for ugly guns.
* Instruct BATFE to lean on any FFL that doesn't report ugly gun sales to central database.
* Declare current laws against national gun resitration lists to be invalid due to the current "emergency."
* "Exempt" NICS and FBI from current law that prohibits them from keeping records of NICS approvals for more than 72 hours.
* Ban impoprt of all ammo not destined for police or law enforcement.
* Revise existing regulations to re-classify ugly guns and scarey ammo as "destructive devices."
* Press Hollywood to include anti-gun themes and messages in TV and movie productions.
* Instruct TSA to search cars on highways for ugly guns.
* Instruct TSA to compensate any gun at an airport or on the highways where the owner cannot provide immediate proof of purchase/ownership.
* Declare NRA to be a terrorist organization.
* Demand NRA membership lists as condition for maintaining status as 501xxx organization.
* Conduct repeated raids on NRA HQs to check for safety, administrative, environmental, etc violations.
* Confiscate business records of any pro-gun organization as evidence for any trival charge/violation, whether relevant to the offense or not.
* Prohibit military and government employees from owning ugly guns, or any guns at all.
Need I go on? Hate to give the government any new ideas...
- - - Yoda
Things Obama could TRY to do via exec order (aka, "We can't wait for Congress to act.")
* Instruct FBI to automjatically disapprove NICS checks for ugly guns.
* Instruct BATFE to lean on any FFL that doesn't report ugly gun sales to central database.
* Declare current laws against national gun resitration lists to be invalid due to the current "emergency."
* "Exempt" NICS and FBI from current law that prohibits them from keeping records of NICS approvals for more than 72 hours.
* Ban impoprt of all ammo not destined for police or law enforcement.
* Revise existing regulations to re-classify ugly guns and scarey ammo as "destructive devices."
* Press Hollywood to include anti-gun themes and messages in TV and movie productions.
* Instruct TSA to search cars on highways for ugly guns.
* Instruct TSA to compensate any gun at an airport or on the highways where the owner cannot provide immediate proof of purchase/ownership.
* Declare NRA to be a terrorist organization.
* Demand NRA membership lists as condition for maintaining status as 501xxx organization.
* Conduct repeated raids on NRA HQs to check for safety, administrative, environmental, etc violations.
* Confiscate business records of any pro-gun organization as evidence for any trival charge/violation, whether relevant to the offense or not.
* Prohibit military and government employees from owning ugly guns, or any guns at all.
Need I go on? Hate to give the government any new ideas...
- - - Yoda
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Hoo boy! You forgot the part about how he could fly around DC in his magic hover-limo confiscating guns with his mega-huge gun magnet!
TSA stopping cars? NRA a terrorist organization? Reclassifying ARs (re-writing the NFA unilaterally?)
Ohhhhh kay.
TSA stopping cars? NRA a terrorist organization? Reclassifying ARs (re-writing the NFA unilaterally?)
Ohhhhh kay.
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