Big and heavy or slow and fast

[BWS]

150g Sierra pro hunter,with a touch over "book" max of IMR4350..... thinking deer as "large" varmints.

Very early,like first year? flat back 116,30-06...... couldn't fit all the deer this thing has flattened in a pickup truck. However;

When my youngest was between 6 and 10 y.o.(20 years ago) I had damage permits for several farms around here. He went with me,a LOT. Think,herds of deer...50 or more. Anyway,used an old R700 ADL in .243.... can't remember the exact Speer bullet? 90g Hotcore maybe.... but that thing wound tight with 4350 killed WAY beyond it's numbers on paper. We were being very respectful,and taking out large numbers of does,once in awhile I'd shoot a buck but,nothing anybody would even consider a wall hanger. Always figured the local boys spent enough $$ and vacation time that they deserved the bruisers...

I did shoot one big buck(15 pts) off one of them farms but it was during regular hunting season. For some reason,think we were going Bear hunting or something? Had the '06 loaded with 180's. I drilled that thing at 80 yds broadside,blew a 50 cent piece hole right through the heart..... dang thing ran 1/4 mile before piling up.

 

[9x56MS]

I'm not sure about the really big .35's, like the Norma or Wetherby's (Whetherby? Weatherby?) But the 350 and the Whelen can be loaded down easily to .35 Rem velocity, .358, etc., and you can still eat right up to the hole. Load a heavy cast bullet at moderate velocity, and you can eat the hole!!! I can attest that the 350 shoots very well and accurately with reduced loads, and even shoots pistol bullets accurately.

That is what I did for my Whelen when hunting deer. Save the full bore loads for bear and moose and hogs.

 

[LimaCharlie]

I prefer options. I have rifles in:

223/5.56 NATO
308/7.62 NATO
50 Beowulf
338 WinMag
416 Rigby
460 Weatherby Magnum

 

[BreechFace]

@Casefull hard to argue with the 308win, from 110gr speed to 180gr hammers. Your 150gr TTSX at 2,900 is doing the job marvelously.

Nice rifle, great action for a mountain hunter.

 

[9x56MS]

I have loaded 200 grain round nose in my 308 and run them through my savage 99 when hunting hogs with dogs. Settles the argument with the dogs in short order.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have loaded 200 grain round nose in my 308 and run them through my savage 99 when hunting hogs with dogs. Settles the argument with the dogs in short order.

I've been shopping around lately for 200 grain round-noses with no luck. Where did you find them?

 

[9x56MS]

I find them occasionally at estate sales and auctions.

 

[9x56MS]

The 200 grain spitzers are too long to fit in the 99 spool magazine but the round nose cycle just fine. Never have to track very far with them. I use the 35 caliber 200 and 250 grain in my 358 Winchester also.

 

[brewer12345]

Deer aren't that hard to kill, so I am amazed at what some of you shoot them with.

 

[AJC1]

Deer aren't that hard to kill, so I am amazed at what some of you shoot them with.

I'm betting it has very little to do in some senerios with the power to kill. My Dad's absolute prize rifle that he treasured was a Marlin 45-70 XLR. If I can take a deer with my son and he can later get one before I pass will build on the family history with grandpa's favorite rifle. Probably most ridiculous is that's probably the most realistic rifle for hunting he owned. I'm not saying a 6mmbr with 30 inch barrel couldn't take a deer, I just can't imagine lugging it around.

 

[brewer12345]

I'm betting it has very little to do in some senerios with the power to kill. My Dad's absolute prize rifle that he treasured was a Marlin 45-70 XLR. If I can take a deer with my son and he can later get one before I pass will build on the family history with grandpa's favorite rifle. Probably most ridiculous is that's probably the most realistic rifle for hunting he owned. I'm not saying a 6mmbr with 30 inch barrel couldn't take a deer, I just can't imagine lugging it around.

Eh, a 45-70 is very similar to using a black powder rifle. Big honking slug that really doesn't need a lot of speed or expansion to seal the deal.

I get the nostalgia thing. I will have a doe and cow elk tag next year and I will at least start out with Dad's 35 Rem even though it isn't ideal for either animal in the place we will be hunting (deer because shots can be far, elk because 35 Rem is on the light side for an animal that big). But it was dad's rifle for many decades and I have wanted to shoot a deer with it for years.

After whacking deer with a cast 30 cal load similar to a 30-30, round balls in 54 and 58 cal, and 6.5 Grendel at ranges from 50 to 325 yards, I think the bar is pretty low to kill deer. If it makes you happy to use something a lot more powerful and it is legal in your state, have at it. I just don't think it takes much.

 

[AJC1]

Eh, a 45-70 is very similar to using a black powder rifle. Big honking slug that really doesn't need a lot of speed or expansion to seal the deal.

I get the nostalgia thing. I will have a doe and cow elk tag next year and I will at least start out with Dad's 35 Rem even though it isn't ideal for either animal in the place we will be hunting (deer because shots can be far, elk because 35 Rem is on the light side for an animal that big). But it was dad's rifle for many decades and I have wanted to shoot a deer with it for years.

After whacking deer with a cast 30 cal load similar to a 30-30, round balls in 54 and 58 cal, and 6.5 Grendel at ranges from 50 to 325 yards, I think the bar is pretty low to kill deer. If it makes you happy to use something a lot more powerful and it is legal in your state, have at it. I just don't think it takes much.

If a Marlin 35 rem came my way I'd be very happy. Neat that you got a good gun with a cool factor. Best of luck on your hunt.

 

[9x56MS]

Deer aren't that hard to kill, so I am amazed at what some of you shoot them with.

Where I hunt if a deer runs more than 100 yards it may end up on posted property so at least in my case I need to put them down fast.

 

[WisBorn]

Deer aren't that hard to kill, so I am amazed at what some of you shoot them with.

If deer are so easy to kill? Why have I had to finish off several in years of hunting? Two that were shot with 22cal cartridges. I have hit 1 deer myself with a rifle that I didn't retrieve. I found the branch that I hit first with my 165 grain bullet from my 30-06. Like @9x56MS said if you hunt in heavily hunted public land or small lots of private land that are posted you want to put the animals down.
Use enough gun, make good shots, and hunt ethically!!!

 

[Casefull]

Regardless of the caliber of the rifle If you want to put them down where they stand shoot them in the front shoulder. If you wreck their wheels they aren’t going anywhere and there’s very little meat in the front shoulders of those little deer anyway. i’ve always liked quartering shots for that reason. You can hit the vitals and break a shoulder with one shot. If that bullet doesn’t hit heavy muscle or bone it won’t expand and will pass straight through the soft tissue and you will have a runner or a wounded animal get away.

 

[Casefull]

The last time I shot a deer with my 300 win mag I could stick my fist through the hole in its neck. I was embarrassed at the overkill. It was too much velocity.

 

[brewer12345]

If deer are so easy to kill? Why have I had to finish off several in years of hunting? Two that were shot with 22cal cartridges. I have hit 1 deer myself with a rifle that I didn't retrieve. I found the branch that I hit first with my 165 grain bullet from my 30-06. Like @9x56MS said if you hunt in heavily hunted public land or small lots of private land that are posted you want to put the animals down.
Use enough gun, make good shots, and hunt ethically!!!

22 cal isn't legal for deer in my state and seems marginal to me, so I can't comment on your experience with it. If you hit a branch on the way to your target with almost anything you will likely have poor results due to deflection.

I am not suggesting that you can get a deer down with a slingshot or thrown shoe, just that 3006 and magnums is perhaps excessive. You do you, of course.

 

[Chuck R.]

Ak hunter what length barrel are you using to get 2600 fps wit a 180 gr in 350 legend ?

It must be part of the "legend" status that somehow it gets 358 Winchester ballistics using a .223 case. Seriously though, most of the 170-180 loads I've seen are around 2100FPS, just under the 35Rem.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'm sure there is a "sweet spot" somewhere in the line-up of calibers for deer, that sweet spot of course being open to endless debate! I don't see using a 300Win Mag, or any .22 caliber. Perhaps many of the big magnums are loaded down for deer more often than one might think. Saying one hunts with a .338 WinMag does not mean off the shelf ammo. When I had a .338, I loaded a "deer load" for it. If I were to use my .350 (I think it's muzzle loader from here on) I'd do the same, perhaps just replicate a warm .35 Remington load. Choosing the right load is more important than choosing the right caliber/cartridge.

I think, IMHO, that the 30-06 is a sweet spot, one can expect quick kills without fist-sized holes, with 180 grain bullets. Also some of the older calibers in 30" such as the 7.7, .30WCF, 7.65X53/54mm, .303 British, stuff like that. I think those were/are perfect deer calibers. Factory loaded (light) or reduced loads in the 7.92X57mm would/could be "perfect". Or I suppose a 8mm Mauser loaded normally with a good bullet would be pretty much the same difference as the .30U.S.

Just saying, "anything" can be a perfect caliber for deer, other than the tiny stuff.

 

[brewer12345]

I think, IMHO, that the 30-06 is a sweet spot, one can expect quick kills without fist-sized holes, with 180 grain bullets. Also some of the older calibers in 30" such as the 7.7, .30WCF, 7.65X53/54mm, .303 British, stuff like that. I think those were/are perfect deer calibers. Factory loaded (light) or reduced loads in the 7.92X57mm would/could be "perfect". Or I suppose a 8mm Mauser loaded normally with a good bullet would be pretty much the same difference as the .30U.S.

Just saying, "anything" can be a perfect caliber for deer, other than the tiny stuff.

My goal is a clean kill without unnecessary meat loss. I tend to think stuff like 30-30, 35 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, etc. is ideal.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

My goal is a clean kill without unnecessary meat loss. I tend to think stuff like 30-30, 35 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, etc. is ideal.

Wouldn't argue with that. And again, one can turn a .30-06 into a .30WCF, or a 350 Remington Magnum into a .35 Remington. Even the .338WinMag can be a .33 Winchester. I have often thought the 6.5 Swede would be a nice deer rifle, don't know how it compares to the Grendel.

 

[WestKentucky]

Mass x Velocity x Velocity = energy.

energy DOES NOT kill, but it DOES cause some interesting things to happen to the bullet. Deformation and flattening, expansion, fragmentation… whatever the bullet is designed to do, it does because of energy at the point of impact. Even with big bore revolvers where the goal is deep penetration energy is what drives that bullet deep.

The key to that is to be sensible. If we went solely with energy then we would all be slinging 416 Barrett rounds at squirrels. Figure out what will reliably kill and match your needs to that circumstance. Inside 50 yards your most likely good with a 6” 357. Inside 500 yards your most likely good with a 30-06. Just be sure that you have enough energy left to do what’s needed with the lead finds meat.

 

[WisBorn]

My goal is a clean kill without unnecessary meat loss. I tend to think stuff like 30-30, 35 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, etc. is ideal.

I think 30-30 & 35 rem are good cartridges. I have no experience with the 6.5 Grendel but see know reason why it would get the job done

 

[brewer12345]

I think 30-30 & 35 rem are good cartridges. I have no experience with the 6.5 Grendel but see know reason why it would get the job done

The Grendel starts out with more modest velocities, but the ballistic coefficient of the 123 grain bullets is high enough that they retain enough energy to drop deer out to 400 yards or so.

 

[wombat13]

I'm sure there is a "sweet spot" somewhere in the line-up of calibers for deer, that sweet spot of course being open to endless debate! I don't see using a 300Win Mag, or any .22 caliber. Perhaps many of the big magnums are loaded down for deer more often than one might think. Saying one hunts with a .338 WinMag does not mean off the shelf ammo. When I had a .338, I loaded a "deer load" for it. If I were to use my .350 (I think it's muzzle loader from here on) I'd do the same, perhaps just replicate a warm .35 Remington load. Choosing the right load is more important than choosing the right caliber/cartridge.

I think, IMHO, that the 30-06 is a sweet spot, one can expect quick kills without fist-sized holes, with 180 grain bullets. Also some of the older calibers in 30" such as the 7.7, .30WCF, 7.65X53/54mm, .303 British, stuff like that. I think those were/are perfect deer calibers. Factory loaded (light) or reduced loads in the 7.92X57mm would/could be "perfect". Or I suppose a 8mm Mauser loaded normally with a good bullet would be pretty much the same difference as the .30U.S.

Just saying, "anything" can be a perfect caliber for deer, other than the tiny stuff.

I shoot deer with hot loads in my .300 win mag and my FIL shoots them with factory .338 win mag. No major meat loss because we don’t shoot them in the meat.