Big Woods Bucks

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H&Hhunter

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I stumbled across this series on You Tube. The way these guys track bucks in the heavy cover up in Maine very much reminds me of how I hunt elk in dark timber and very similar to how I hunt hogs in the thick cedar and river bottoms in Texas. That environment is perfect for good iron sights and a heavy medium or big bore rifle. Pump actions, lever actions and double rifles are built for this kind of hunting,

In the episode below the hunter is using a Woodman arms patriot muzzle loader. That thing looks like a super nice stalking rifle! In other episode it looks like the REM 760 is king in that part of the world.

In any case I am enjoying watching these guys and how they hunt. Their style is very familiar to me and I really appreciate their use of old school skill and ability and the complete lack of gadgetry and new fangled gear.

 
I've also watched a bunch of them, as it's how I hunted growing up in RI when we went to upstate NY. The Larry Benoit and his sons made the methodology famous, but folks have been tracking deer up there since there's been deer hunters.

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/.../larry-benoit-an-american-deer-hunting-legend

I've been looking for a 760 or 7600 at a reasonable cost to convert to either .358 or 35Whelen, but haven't had any luck. I've lost multiple auctions on Gunbroker when the bidding goes out there.

So I modified my M7 in .350 to be the bolt action version; Manners stock and Swarovski 1.25-4X at just over 7lbs "all up". If nothing else I'll be using it for our deer drives this year. Guys don't appreciate how well the .35s (and larger) do on less than ideal hits till they see it in person.
 
I think my Marlin 1894 in .44 magnum with the Burris FF3 reflex sight would work well for that style of hunting. I’ll have to check those videos out. Thanks.
 
Guys don't appreciate how well the .35s (and larger) do on less than ideal hits till they see it in person.

Excatamundo!

It didn’t take me long to start using medium/ big bore, short barreled fast handling rifle once I started jump shooting hogs and dark timber elk. Until you’ve seen the results of a medium or big bore hit on a deer or a hog that isn’t quite perfect and effect it has, it’s tough to explain.

With hogs I went to the extreme mainly for practice and familiarity with heavy DG rifles using iron sights. I also really enjoyed ghost ring sighted lever guns in .45-70. I’ll just add because I get guff over this all the time, YOU DO NOT NEED a big or medium DG rifle to kill hogs or elk in the timber. I use them because I want to and I enjoy using them.

Different critters than big woods bucks in my case but very similar hunting conditions and shot opportunities.

And that’s exactly (minus the snow) how I’ve hunted Cape buffalo in the thick Jesse bush of Zimbabwe. You track in the dirt and leaves for as many miles as it takes until you finally get your shot opportunity or take the long walk back to the truck empty handed.
 
While I have blessed to live close to three large parcels of public land,(68,000 acres), (58,000 acres), (44,000 acres), plus a military base that is about half open to hunting(60,000 acres), no way do they probably compare to the area that the hunter in the above video has access to. Still, I grew up "still hunting" very similar to what was shown in the video. The tall scrub pine stands heavy with blowdowns and separated by shallow swamps brought back many a memory. Around here, snow that heavy is rare during the normal gun season, but is common during the later antlerless and late bow seasons.

Several things stuck out to me. Never in my life have I jumped a mature buck that quickly bedded down within 40 yards of where I jumped him, unless he was hurt or sick. Never have I been able to tromp quickly and loudly thru noisy snow, with another person tromping behind me, and walk up within blackpowder range of the same mature buck several times in a single day, again, unless it was already hurt or sick. Maybe those Maine bucks are less pressured and less wary of humans during the hunting season, I dunno. While I did during the early stages of learning how to "stalk" deer, jump small bucks being as obvious as the hunter in the video, I found that as time went on, I spent more time standing still and looking than just walking. Even when walking the steps were slow and deliberate, stopping every other step to look around again, not at all what I saw in the video. Most of the healthy bucks I caught in their beds were not obvious, but the catching of a small movement of antler or the look of something not quite right, after stopping and looking for a period of time. In the video, it seemed the hunter did what I call, "jump shooting", which is getting close enough to a bedded or standing buck, to get a shot off as it takes off and runs. Seems the first several misses were of these types of shots. Many folks consider those low percentage type shots. Those of us used to hunting that way, know that, waiting for a standing broadside shot is going to net you very few deer. Practice at running targets and waiting and being ready for the deer to hit an opening, along with knowing the lead needed is paramount. As is using those rifles and bullets that will help, but still not totally help compensate, for a less than ideal hit. I used a sporterized M1917 bolt action that was extremely accurate and swung well, even if it was heavy and long. Tracking skills are also a must. While the snow in the video makes for tracking a beginner could follow, that is not always the case. So is accepting that low percentage shots will and do mean, a higher percentage of irretrievable deer. Just the way it is....period. Seemed the shot the hunter finally made on the buck was a spine shot, by the way the buck was thrashing. Doubt very much if that is what he was going for. Sometimes even with all the skills one has, luck still helps. The stopping continuously and looking for a period of time will sometimes net you deer, that like rabbits and grouse, will sit tight, waiting for the threat to pass. On the public land I hunt, this is the norm and deer get used to those hunters that will walk right by. Sometimes my still hunting consists of following others as they walk thru the woods and I pick up on movement as the deer watch them, or catch the deer getting up and running back the way the hunters came. after they have passed. Just as is leaving the track of a buck I've jumped after trailing him for a while and going back to where I originally jumped him. Again, like rabbits, deer will tend to circle thinking the danger had followed them out the area and they go back to where they feel safe. Knowing the woods and how to get there quietly and with the wind in your favor, is not luck.

Other things that stuck out was the use of a snow machine to drag out a deer far from any road or trail. Here in Wisconsin, that is a big no-no and one reason in my old age, I have given up on hunting the big woods alone like I used to. A half mile or more drag thru that kind of terrain is not an easy task, even when one is equipped for it. Watching the hunter attempt to drag that buck by it's horns thru the brush and snow made me wonder why he wasn't better prepared for the task. A good drag rope that fits around one's shoulders or attached to a drag stick, along with positioning the front legs behind the horns does wonders. While a cart works when there is no snow, those plastic sleds work very well for dragging in heavy snow. Both are something one needs to go back to the truck and get. Good time to get rid of your rifle and other gear and dress down for the drag.

I know the video does not show us everything, and that the hunter's continuous success means he does indeed know what he is doing. I am not trying to be overly critical. It's just that like many hunting videos, it gives the impression it is easy and it is not. Still hunting the big woods takes woodsmanship and in many cases is worthless, unless the weather is favorable for it. Generally that weather does not mean blue skies and calm winds. Most of the time it's just the opposite. Crunchy snow/leaves without wind to cover the noise means if you see anything it will just be a tail far away in the brush. Those are the days you need to hunt with someone else in the hopes that tail will run in front of them. Being out in nasty weather means your likelihood of getting close enough for a shot is better, but you also have to be diligent on checking that your sights/scope are not snow covered or fogged. Also means that using the sun for navigation is not an option. Know the woods or have a compass. The fact the hunter knew how close to the Canadian border he was getting, odds are he had a tracking ap on his phone and thus had cell coverage, or had a GPS. Problem is for most folks nowadays is that they do not have access to the thousands of acres it takes for this kind of hunting. They are hunting small parcels of 80-200 acres of private land and don;t want to push deer off it to the neighbors sitting on the fenceline. Thus they will never know the thrill of seeing the tips of a pair of antlers above the snow/brush, slowly turning 40 yards away.

Thanks for the memories H&H. Makes me want to head out to the big woods........
 
I have watched a few if them Maine jump hunting deer videos.
That's no my style at all. I'm sure they shoot unretreavable deer that run of and die.
It happens alot in good woods every year. I personally think Taking then running pot shots is unethical.
One of them big woods videos the guy shot one of the legs on the buck and followed it for quit some time before he got it.
It is every ones choice what they do and how they go about it. Taking luck shots just isn't for me.
When I shoot a deer it is always one killing shot and a very dead deer with no tracking or if in case of a lung shot very little tracking.
I made never had a season without multiple deer harvest. Several seasons I have taken my limit of five deer with all one shot killing placement.
H&R 243 Handi-Rifle single-shot.
This year I have a Traditions Outfitter single shot in 350 legend. So far this year I harvested two deer with it and pasted up on lots of real small deer. Still have two weeks to go.
 
I've been fortunate enough to hunt in multiple states across the U.S. and several countries. Everything from stand hunting (boring but necessary), spot and stalk, still hunting, tracking, to driven game. There's a reason why the methods vary from area to area and game to game. One man's "unethical" is another man's "the way it's done" here.

So I'm really cautious about throwing around the "unethical" term till I've experienced it 1st hand.

BTW I just came from a 5 day guided hunt where I saw the results of some of the worst marksmanship, on standing broadside "in the rut" oblivious bucks, I've ever seen. Now bad shots happen, but in that group of 7 only 3 animals were one shot kills at ranges from 50yds to a little over 300yds. There were leg shots, rump shots, neck shots etc. As much as I believe everyone should get in enough practice to make a clean kill, or restrict their range to something they can handle, I'm still not tossing around the term "unethical". I understand that a lot of guys deal with range and time restrictions, they don't get to practice from field positions.

I also realize that, as much as I don't like the thought, a deer that gets away and dies later isn't an absolute waste. Coyotes and other predators/scavengers will take care of it, they do often die on their own of old age, disease etc.

YMMV.
 
There were leg shots, rump shots, neck shots etc.

(I am not being a troll here.) A neck shot is always my 1st choice if I am confident that I can make it. It drops the animal right there with very little loss of meat. No trouble tracking a wounded animal and it never causes the gut to be punctured and produce a nasty cleaning job.

Please expound on why neck shots are bad.
 
Big woods hunting something I would like to do one day. It’s not going to happen around my present geographic locale.
 
I think my Marlin 1894 in .44 magnum with the Burris FF3 reflex sight would work well for that style of hunting. I’ll have to check those videos out. Thanks.
I actually purchased a Henry Big Boy X in 45 Colt and topped it with a Sig Romeo for this exact style of hunting.
 
It is such a handy little rifle and a reflex sight can’t be beat for making quick shots. I got a deer with that rifle that I could not have with any other sight. It came busting out of cover at full steam directly toward my stand about 20 yards away. Got the dot on it and shot it in a fraction of a second and it slid to a stop under my stand. One of the more exciting hunting days.
 
I wonder if the folks who only take a perfect broadside shot from a distance have ever hunted small game. Do they shoot quail only on the ground? Do they shoot ducks and geese lazily floating in the marsh? We all know that hunting smaller game involves taking shots at moving animals. There is not much difference when shooting at deer in hunting environments where that may be the only shot you get all season. I understand that different hunting conditions and terrain necessitates different means of taking those animals. People need to lighten up and respect that different hunters use different methods and that’s the way it is.
 
One of the many things I enjoy about THR are the vast array of thoughts and opinions that I read about from different hunters from different regions.
It’s good to get out of your “zone” and see how other hunters go about collecting critters. To a Western spot and stalk hunter like myself the thought of sitting in a stand on a small plot of land used to be an absolute joke and a waste of time in my uneducated opinion. Then I went to where it was the most effective method and tried it.
Same goes for corn feeders and senderos in South Texas, the very thought used to make me laugh. Then I went to South Texas and learned what that country was really all about and why the need for doing it the way they do existed.

Different hunting cultures hunt differently in various place throughout the country and the world. Just because you’ve only hunted your way in your area doesn’t make others wrong. The best way to understand different hunting methods is to go give them a try. Educate yourself and you’ll find that you become less biased and a better hunter.
 
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I wonder if the folks who only take a perfect broadside shot from a distance have ever hunted small game. Do they shoot quail only on the ground? Do they shoot ducks and geese lazily floating in the marsh? We all know that hunting smaller game involves taking shots at moving animals. There is not much difference when shooting at deer in hunting environments where that may be the only shot you get all season. I understand that different hunting conditions and terrain necessitates different means of taking those animals. People need to lighten up and respect that different hunters use different methods and that’s the way it is.

Whenever I read that stuff, especially when the whole "unethical", "pot-shot", "spray and pray" type stuff is posted I just remember how narrow some guys experiences are.

I've shot and killed running deer and Russian boar in Europe (it's really, really, tough to get a driven boar to stand broadside). It's not rocket science, but it does stress not using calibers and ammo that are normally "adequate" under prefect conditions, because you will rarely see "prefect" conditions. I've always like this quote, which goes with the thread:

Hunting styles are a bit different too. Sitting in a stand can be a cold, lonely, empty pastime. It’s not unusual for a hunter to hang off a tree the entire season and not see a deer. The most successful hunters in the big woods hunt on the move. They don’t wait for the deer; they walk out and go find them. Tracking is the most productive method; still hunting a distant second.

When it comes to shooting with these hunting techniques, it’s nothing like the deer hunts you see on television. If you wait for the “perfect shot” or refuse to shoot at a running deer, you may as well lighten your load and leave your ammo home. You won’t be needing it. Shot placement is rarely perfect, so you want to drive the bullet deep.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/best-deer-rifles-for-big-woods/

IMHO, good hunters are adaptive to the quarry and conditions.
 
Whenever I read that stuff, especially when the whole "unethical", "pot-shot", "spray and pray" type stuff is posted I just remember how narrow some guys experiences are.
I think there is a difference between taking a shot at a running deer and spray and pray. I do have a problem with spray and pray in most places people hunt east of the Mississippi. There are a few places in the east with big woods and few people. Just google “NASA photos U.S. at night” and look at the dark areas: interior Maine, Adirondacks, west central PA, Smokies, Okeechobee swamp, and Everglades. However, I would guess that the large majority of hunters in the east are hunting closer to where they live which means small plots. A few hundred acres is considered large here. Property lines are more often than not within a few hundred yards. Spray and pray means rounds are flying onto neighbors property and the shooter doesn’t really know who is over there.

We joke about what the number of shots mean, but it’s probably more true than not:

One shot: He got his deer
Two shots: He got two deer or the one needed a finishing shot
Three or more shots: That one got away!
 
I think there is a difference between taking a shot at a running deer and spray and pray. I do have a problem with spray and pray in most places people hunt east of the Mississippi. There are a few places in the east with big woods and few people. Just google “NASA photos U.S. at night” and look at the dark areas: interior Maine, Adirondacks, west central PA, Smokies, Okeechobee swamp, and Everglades. However, I would guess that the large majority of hunters in the east are hunting closer to where they live which means small plots. A few hundred acres is considered large here. Property lines are more often than not within a few hundred yards. Spray and pray means rounds are flying onto neighbors property and the shooter doesn’t really know who is over there.

We joke about what the number of shots mean, but it’s probably more true than not:

One shot: He got his deer
Two shots: He got two deer or the one needed a finishing shot
Three or more shots: That one got away!

The bolded is another one of those assumptions. Rule 4 applies regardless of whether it's the 1st shot or the next. Doesn't matter if the shots running, standing still, broadside, Texas heart shot etc. It also doesn't matter if its a semi, pump, lever, single shot, or bolt gun.

As I'm so often fond of saying, there are no absolutes. Small parcels require different techniques, flat terrain-different techniques, wooded VS. open etc. Odds are IF you're hunting a smaller parcel, you're not tracking, nor would you be normally shooting at jumped deer.

Since the title of the thread is "Big Woods Bucks" an assumption might be that we're discussing tactics that are used in "Big Woods"?

"Spray and Pray" is a term tossed about mostly cause it sounds cool, especially when the poster is talking about somebody else, usually condescendingly. Originally it was used as slang for automatic fire that didn't even meet the requirements for true suppressive fire.

For some reason everybody thinks the other guy is an azzclown. One guy's multiple shots sounds like "spray and pray" to another guy it's multiple deer down. Would it make folks feel better if the term was "consecutive aimed shots"? Or we could use terms applied in defensive shooting like "controlled" pair" VS a "double tap" and the differentiation would be the number of sight pictures taken and corresponding shots. By that alone, multiple aimed shots wouldn't meet the normal definition of "spray and pray".
 
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The bolded is another one of those assumptions. Rule 4 applies regardless of whether it's the 1st shot or the next. Doesn't matter if the shots running, standing still, broadside, Texas heart shot etc. It also doesn't matter if its a semi, pump, lever, single shot, or bolt gun.

As I'm so often fond of saying, there are no absolutes. Small parcels require different techniques, flat terrain-different techniques, wooded VS. open etc. Odds are IF you're hunting a smaller parcel, you're not tracking, nor would you be normally shooting at jumped deer.

Since the title of the thread is "Big Woods Bucks" an assumption might be that we're discussing tactics that are used in "Big Woods"?

"Spray and Pray" is a term tossed about mostly cause it sounds cool, especially when the poster is talking about somebody else, usually condescendingly. Originally it was used as slang for automatic fire that didn't even meet the requirements for true suppressive fire.

For some reason everybody thinks the other guy is an azzclown. One guy's multiple shots sounds like "spray and pray" to another guy it's multiple deer down. Would it make folks feel better if the term was "consecutive aimed shots"? Or we could use terms applied in defensive shooting like "controlled" pair" VS a "double tap" and the differentiation would be the number of sight pictures taken and corresponding shots. By that alone, multiple aimed shots wouldn't meet the normal definition of "spray and pray".
If it is multiple aimed shots with multiple deer down, it ain't "spray and pray." Yes Rule 4 always applies and you and I both know that not everyone follows it. We just had another thread in which a THR member posted about another hunter telling him about getting off a few good "sound shots" which were shots at sounds in the brush. There are irresponsible and dangerous hunters out there. Firing multiple shots from a ground position at a running deer is often irresponsible when done in the NE for the reasons I outlined above.
 
I got good enough at jump shooting that I’d often put two or three rounds into a hog as it was running. When we recovered it the bullets holes were often in a soft ball sized group in the vitals. There is an art and a technique to snap shooting a rifle. I meet few “average” American hunters who have mastered it.

“Average” meaning the average method of rifle hunting in the states. I have lost wounded critters while jump shooting, and I’ve also lost a few after wounding them off a solid rest. If you hunt long enough and shoot enough game in varied conditions it’s going to happen.
 
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I got good enough at jump shooting that I’d often put two or three rounds into a hog as it was running. When we recovered it the bullets holes wee often in a soft ball sized group in the vitals. There is an art and a technique to snap shooting a rifle. I meet few “average” American hunters who have mastered it.

“Average” meaning the average method of rifle hunting in the states. I have lost wounded critters while jump shooting, and I’ve also lost a few after wounding them off a solid rest. If you hunt long enough and shoot enough game in varied conditions it’s going to happen.
Agreed. Of course there are hunters that can do what you describe, but I doubt they are common. So when I hear multiple rapid shots is it likely that an H&H is hunting next door? I doubt it.
 
Agreed. Of course there are hunters that can do what you describe, but I doubt they are common. So when I hear multiple rapid shots is it likely that an H&H is hunting next door? I doubt it.
Most likely not. I was throwing a different perspective out there not at all doubting or disagreeing with your experiences.
 
Growing up in Wisconsin I have been to countless “running buck shoots”. You pay an entrance fee, take your three shots at the target deer hauling azz across the opening in the woods on a cable system, and if you’re good collect the jackpot. Most guys who shot at those events were pretty good. It takes practice to become proficient at doing things others say are uncommon.
 
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