Biggest dog from a real gun company?

Biggest dog from a company that should know better:

  • Colt AA2000

    Votes: 80 30.4%

  • Beretta Cougar

    Votes: 7 2.7%

  • SIG/Mauser M2

    Votes: 9 3.4%

  • HK VP70z

    Votes: 11 4.2%

  • S&W Sigma 380

    Votes: 102 38.8%

  • Browning BDM

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • Colt Double Eagle

    Votes: 28 10.6%

  • SIG SigPro

    Votes: 9 3.4%

  • Colt SF-VI

    Votes: 3 1.1%

  • My nominee is written in below!

    Votes: 10 3.8%
  • Total voters
    263
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Tamara

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Which of the following guns (from otherwise well-respected companies) should have come with a five pound bag of Kibbles & Bits and a leash?

1) Colt AA2000: "Hey! Let's build a fragile pistol with a crappy trigger and a rotating barrel designed to hamper accuracy!"
2) Beretta Cougar: "Hey! Let's copy off Colt's paper!"
3) SIG/Mauser M2: "Hey! It worked so badly for Colt & Beretta, why don't we try it ourselves?"
4) HK VP70z: Hi-Point engineers flee to Germany. Hilarity ensues.
5) S&W Sigma 380: Someone should be beaten with a stick for this one. Had the lifespan of a cancerous fruit fly.
6) Browning BDM: Apparently, Browning saw a great need for a pistol with a goofy rotating switch on the side. Apparently, nobody else did.
7) Colt Double Eagle: Just what nobody asked for; an ugly quasi-1911 with a lousy DA trigger.
8) SIG SigPro: SIG builds solidly mediocre polymer pistol. Customers stay away in droves.
9) Colt SF-VI: Colt pees on the grave of the revered Detective Special with a cheapened replacement.
10) Write in your own nominee!
 
Tie:

The AA2000 and the SIGMA .380

The Cougar isn't a bad pistol and doesn't deserve to head up a list that contains the AA2000 which never lived past it's first recall--the squirtgun trigger was the biggest turn-off IMO. If the Cougar has a problem it's that it looks wierd and is thick and short barrelled for its size. It has something of a following though--something that could never be said of the AA2000. I've never understood how something as poorly thought out as the AA2000 ever made it onto the shelves (where it stayed.)

The VP70 was also a decent gun in it's original guise--a subgun that could double as a hi-cap 9mm pistol with the shoulder stock removed. It was just plain stupid in its semi-auto only U.S. version--the super-heavy trigger and strange look didn't help.
 
I voted for the Sigma even though the one I owned never had a FTF. Of course, the dissassembly pin in the rear of the frame cut the plastic to pieces, the finish flaked off, the trigger was about 40 lbs., the frame rails were slowly falling apart, BUT it never had a FTF, yessiree bob!
 
Definitely the Sigma 380, a lousy product with a short life expectancy. You have to be desperate to buy one of those.
 
voted the colt double eagle.. is the old hk vp 70 the one with funky stock and 3 rd burst capaiblty is so might be ugly butt pretty cool for a 70's design
 
I voted for the Colt Double Eagle. I just assumed some Law Enforcement Agency was responsible for this incomprehensible idea. Please correct me if I am wrong, but why else would anyone, even a crackhead, think this is a good idea?

At least the other stuff on the list can be excused by "They were trying to make money and just went about it the wrong way. . ." :rolleyes:
 
I voted for S&W Sigma 380, but will add the worst were two Combat Commanders in 9mm. Despite everything that was tried, I couldn't get even round nosed ball to feed twice in a row. Close behind was the Model 59 S&W.

Ironically I've never liked the 39, but have never had a problem.
 
Right off the bat, I would like to nominate the incestuous love child of the Glock 17 and 21.

Gaston Glock's foray into firearm inbreeding... the Glock 37!!! :rolleyes:

I'm keeping track of how long the one my dealer has, stays in the case. It's been over a month now!!! ;)
 
My votes are split between the three Colt entries.....

because they should have known better
The VP70 was very radical for the time, but prophetic too....DAO, Polimer frame, High capacity mag...and then the stock and three round bursts. Yep it was big. Yep it had a heavy trigger pull. But it announced to the world that there were other materials and possibilities to use in handgun design.
Anyway that is my take. And I'll still take my 1911!
Jercamp45
 
I've got to go with the AA2000. Anyone who has been reading my messages for awhile knows my experience with the gun when I was with American Rifleman.

Not only was it a huge dog, it was an albatross of monumental proportions, just about finishing Colt off as a company.

I really think that the BDM is an unfortunate addition to that list. It was a good gun. The grip was amazingly thin for a high cap. Everyone expected it to use High Power magazines, though, and there weren't enough mags out before the magazine capacity limitations hit and really spelled an effective end to the Wonder9 craze.


I'd have to throw another nominee on that list, though. Anything ever made by AMT or it's affiliated companies. I don't think it would be possible to pay more money for a worse gun.
 
Mike,

Anything ever made by AMT or it's affiliated companies.
Click to expand...

I specified "from a real gun company." ;)


Re: The BDM. I've had a couple. Some fantastic aspects, marred by fragility, a safety completely incompatable with the US market, and a complete lack of advertising. Add bad timing, and thus are great flops born. Very neat guns, but flawed enough to make the list.
 
My vote was for the Sigma. I think that others here have pretty much summed up a lot of the problems with it. The others might not have been the best design to come out but they did hold together. Now as far as the VZ70P goes, I'm not 100% sure that it was the worst handgun ever made. Compared to the rest of the HK handugns it is but when you consider that it set a lot of firsts in the handgun industry such as polymer frames and a DAO trigger not to mention some of the relatively new features like high capacity mags (I think the only other high caps were the Beretta 92, Browning Hi-Power and the S&W 59) and selective fire capability for example. I do however think it was a lot better in it's original select-fire version than trying to make it into something else (semi-auto only) that it was never designed to be in the first place.
 
Tams,

I've never seen the fragility problem with the BDM, but I've not had that much experience with them.

I'm trying to remember how the safety works -- I think it's UP to fire, down to safe, right? I'm not sure that that's all that unusual in the American market, really. Not everyone is born with a 1911 in their hands, and there are other safety styles on the market, as well, that people don't have too many problems with.

The advertising issue was one of situational timing. Browning had some problems getting the gun up to production speed, by which time the Wonder9 craze was coming to an end.

I'd really like to see the BDM reintroduced into the market, especially in .357 Sig.

And no, you said from "otherwise well-respected companies." For some reason, and I've never been able to figure it out, AMT go so many passes from the industry and press and public that many people got the illusion that they should be well respected, and the illusion made the reality. I can't tell you how many people came into the shop where I was working wanting to buy an AMT, and simply didn't understand it when I advised them against it. A lot of them did buy AMTs, and quite a few of them came back and told me that they should have listened to me. :(


The Double Eagle, or Flatuent Beagle, as I've called it, was a nasty dog. One of a series that Colt had all around the same time, and all of which just about pushed Colt over the edge.

I was writing for the newspaper in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the Chief of Police of Granville Township was carrying one. After awhile I saw that he was back carrying his 1911, and asked him about the DE. I won't repeat exactly what he said, as I'd be banned for language issues.

At least one other cop in the area also tried the DE, and was equally disappointed to the point where he went back to his 1911.
 
I'd really like to see the BDM reintroduced into the market, especially in .357 Sig.
Click to expand...

The pistols had a just-barely-beefy-enough-for-9mm frame, and even then established a reputation for cracking frames, especially with +P ammo. One in .40 or .357 is unlikely without beefing it up to the point that its best feature is destroyed.
 
1) Colt AA2000: This is pretty much the dog winner in my book. Incredibly ugly and didn't work. I mean, what's left?

2) Beretta Cougar: I hear that some Cougars actually work. The 9000 was a bigger dog... I even read a bad gun rag review of it (!!!).

3) SIG/Mauser M2: Don't know much about this one, to be honest.

4) HK VP70z: Can't be as big a dog as the AA2000, because it actually will fire a bullet. Of course, the 20 lb trigger will also give you tendonitis of the finger so you can't stand to shoot it.

5) S&W Sigma 380: A life lesson: don't make something that stinks, then give it a name that rhymes with something that stinks. It was like an old Soviet weapon system: based on stolen patents, but made by people too stupid to use the patents to make anything good.

6) Browning BDM: Could have done well if anybody that worked at Browning had passed Marketing 101.

7) Colt Double Eagle: This doesn't deserve to be on the list, but only because Colt also made the much, much worse AA2000.

8) SIG SigPro: This is more a case of bad marketing than anything else, since last I heard the gun does actually work OK.

9) Colt SF-VI: You've got me on this one, I never even played with a SF-VI.

I'll go with the AA2000.
 
I threw a vote towards the Sigma.

But I wouldn't limit it to just the Zamac .380 version. I witnessed two brand-new 9mm models choke within minutes of their first mag-loads of ammo. :what:
 
With the exception of the AA2000 (my vote) & the Sigma, the guns listed were of pretty good quality for the times they were introduced...

VP-70: A volkspistol to arm civilians quickly in the event of an invasion of Western Europe by the Soviets.

Mauser M2: a DAO w/ a safety that can be seen when in a shooting position & can be manipulated by either hand.

BDM: a "choose your own" system for those who want DA/SA or DAO in the same gun. Just needed better marketing.

DE: a 1911-style pistol for those who have to carry a DA/SA gun. I've always wanted one of the 10mm models. And they beat Para-Ord by a good decade.

SigPro: an affordable SIG that's lighter & as good a shooter as it's big brothers--what's not to love.

SF-VI: Improved Detective Special. Colt's biggest failing is that they didn't make enough for everyone...:(

The only reason I didn't vote for the Sigma is that you could find some that DID work--if you looked long enough. The mag system was pretty unique, too.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the late-model SAA's or Cowboy revolvers from Colt. Why someone would pay actual money for those junkers...:rolleyes:
 
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