Feanaro
Member
I would suggest that BIL get some therapy. One does NOT reach out by putting a gun to your head. Such people need help.
BIL pointed a gun to his head--Should I take away his gun?
- Thread starter BamBam-31
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Midnight,
I agree with you that the gun is not the problem. Initially, my sister gave the Sig the "Get that evil thing away from me" look, but when I caught it, I explained that the gun was a tool, neither good nor evil except in the hand that wields it. I explained that if my BIL wanted to, he could off himself with a spoon, or a shoe, or a car. She understood that the important thing was to get to the root of the problem rather than its infinite manifestations.
It was understood by all that me taking the gun away was a precaution, not a remedy. Also, in surrendering his gun, my BIL was demonstrating the sincerity of his desire to resolve his differences with my sister. Again, not an end in itself, but a baby step towards it.
The gun WAS loaded, BTW. My sister said he unloaded it before handing it to her because he knew she was unfamiliar with firearms.
Again, that night, both of them agreed that marriage counselling was in order. And I believe they meant it.
I hope to God it works out for the two of them. I can still see the tears of joy on my Mom's face at their wedding....
I agree with you that the gun is not the problem. Initially, my sister gave the Sig the "Get that evil thing away from me" look, but when I caught it, I explained that the gun was a tool, neither good nor evil except in the hand that wields it. I explained that if my BIL wanted to, he could off himself with a spoon, or a shoe, or a car. She understood that the important thing was to get to the root of the problem rather than its infinite manifestations.
It was understood by all that me taking the gun away was a precaution, not a remedy. Also, in surrendering his gun, my BIL was demonstrating the sincerity of his desire to resolve his differences with my sister. Again, not an end in itself, but a baby step towards it.
The gun WAS loaded, BTW. My sister said he unloaded it before handing it to her because he knew she was unfamiliar with firearms.
Again, that night, both of them agreed that marriage counselling was in order. And I believe they meant it.
I hope to God it works out for the two of them. I can still see the tears of joy on my Mom's face at their wedding....
PenHolder
Member
Been there, and back... ick.
This thread hits a chord with me; I've dealt with a drama cycle somewhat like what Jim was alluding to.
This case with the BIL doesn't sound like a suicide attempt so much, but it's certainly way out of line from what I'd demand of anybody who I care about (or lived with someone I care about). On the subject of suicidal tendencies, experience has taught me to: 1) get help, and 2) trust your gut. While you may not be a qualified Psychomagician, it seems that there's never a Psychomagician handy when you need one, so you've got to do the best you can and not beat yourself up about it, regardless of the outcome. Maybe he's prone to suicide, maybe not, but one of the strongest indicators (THE strongest?) of a person who will complete suicide is someone who's attempted it before, no matter how light-heartedly they try to dismiss the past as a fluke.
I've observed in my very limited experience with a friend that the whole suicide situation is nothing like I'd learned the "common knowledge" about. A previous poster was spot on in observing that it's often "the last person you'd expect". There are usually warning signs, and they're usually unrecognized and ignored. Loathe as I am to casually involve the State in someone's personal affairs, I would call the authorities in almost all situations like this. If the person is "crying for help" or just trying to get their way, a little trip to the ward will cure them of that quick-like. If they actually do need the help, the earlier they get it, the better. Unfortunately, from my experience, it may take several passes through the ringer before things improve. I've noted complacency in some public mental health staff, a sort-of "scrip em and ship em" attitude. While that may work alright at the DMV, when you're dealing with people whose thought processes are detached from reality (but not to the point of gnawing on doorknobs or shrieking wildly), you can't rely on their better judgement to see through the day.
That's the trouble with the "if someone wants to off 'emself, far be it for me to stop 'em" outlook. In the case of someone who's actually "mental", they may not want to go through with it, but they're genuinely losing their grip on reality. (But then again, who's to decide if I'm fit to decide what's right for me? That's a tough question, and until someone comes up with a good answer, I still lean towards leaving the power with the individual. I'm just pointing out a problem.)
In my instance, as best I could figure out, I wasn't dealing with an "I'll do this to get my way" attitude; it was a person who was unable to effectively deal with stress, combined with a personality that channeled nearly any meaningless little problem into a strong sense of personal failure, leading to... more stress! This made for a vicious little feedback cycle. The damping factor which kept things under control most of the time, was sleep. Now, when you take this kind of system and add college into the mix, things get ugly: lots of hard work, close living quarters with strangers, and extended periods without enough sleep. That's much more stress going in, and much less sleep damping the cycle. All of this was kept inside and never spoken of, until the stress got to be too much, and the person just went Chernobyl. Seeing someone you care about (or heck, probably even a stranger) melt down like that, to try to reason with them as you can kind of sense in their eyes and tone that they're drifting off of the rails of reality, it really gets to you inside. I'm not talking about some Hollywood "I see dead people" theatrics, either, just subtle changes, like the kind of personality shifts you'd notice after being re-united with a friend or relative who had been away for a year. The whole thing was intensely ugly for all involved. (On the other hand, dealing with this sort of thing made whatever random problems I'd been having in life seem downright jovial by comparison. Yeah, I was really reaching for a silver lining.)
The creepiest part, I'd say, was talking about this all with said person after all of the lights-sirens-confinement-medication business had died down and things had settled back into a usual routine, to try and piece together what the ride was like from the cockpit. It took a while to get past the shame and regret, and it was creepy stuff.
On my list of "things to do if I happen to become an all-powerful diety or otherwise gain control of the Matrix" is to put a stop to stuff like this:
http://www.voicechasers.org/News/mkbobit.html
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V121/N70/70shin-timeline.70n.html
Anyway, enough of my babbling. Take care.
-PH
This thread hits a chord with me; I've dealt with a drama cycle somewhat like what Jim was alluding to.
This case with the BIL doesn't sound like a suicide attempt so much, but it's certainly way out of line from what I'd demand of anybody who I care about (or lived with someone I care about). On the subject of suicidal tendencies, experience has taught me to: 1) get help, and 2) trust your gut. While you may not be a qualified Psychomagician, it seems that there's never a Psychomagician handy when you need one, so you've got to do the best you can and not beat yourself up about it, regardless of the outcome. Maybe he's prone to suicide, maybe not, but one of the strongest indicators (THE strongest?) of a person who will complete suicide is someone who's attempted it before, no matter how light-heartedly they try to dismiss the past as a fluke.
I've observed in my very limited experience with a friend that the whole suicide situation is nothing like I'd learned the "common knowledge" about. A previous poster was spot on in observing that it's often "the last person you'd expect". There are usually warning signs, and they're usually unrecognized and ignored. Loathe as I am to casually involve the State in someone's personal affairs, I would call the authorities in almost all situations like this. If the person is "crying for help" or just trying to get their way, a little trip to the ward will cure them of that quick-like. If they actually do need the help, the earlier they get it, the better. Unfortunately, from my experience, it may take several passes through the ringer before things improve. I've noted complacency in some public mental health staff, a sort-of "scrip em and ship em" attitude. While that may work alright at the DMV, when you're dealing with people whose thought processes are detached from reality (but not to the point of gnawing on doorknobs or shrieking wildly), you can't rely on their better judgement to see through the day.
That's the trouble with the "if someone wants to off 'emself, far be it for me to stop 'em" outlook. In the case of someone who's actually "mental", they may not want to go through with it, but they're genuinely losing their grip on reality. (But then again, who's to decide if I'm fit to decide what's right for me? That's a tough question, and until someone comes up with a good answer, I still lean towards leaving the power with the individual. I'm just pointing out a problem.)
In my instance, as best I could figure out, I wasn't dealing with an "I'll do this to get my way" attitude; it was a person who was unable to effectively deal with stress, combined with a personality that channeled nearly any meaningless little problem into a strong sense of personal failure, leading to... more stress! This made for a vicious little feedback cycle. The damping factor which kept things under control most of the time, was sleep. Now, when you take this kind of system and add college into the mix, things get ugly: lots of hard work, close living quarters with strangers, and extended periods without enough sleep. That's much more stress going in, and much less sleep damping the cycle. All of this was kept inside and never spoken of, until the stress got to be too much, and the person just went Chernobyl. Seeing someone you care about (or heck, probably even a stranger) melt down like that, to try to reason with them as you can kind of sense in their eyes and tone that they're drifting off of the rails of reality, it really gets to you inside. I'm not talking about some Hollywood "I see dead people" theatrics, either, just subtle changes, like the kind of personality shifts you'd notice after being re-united with a friend or relative who had been away for a year. The whole thing was intensely ugly for all involved. (On the other hand, dealing with this sort of thing made whatever random problems I'd been having in life seem downright jovial by comparison. Yeah, I was really reaching for a silver lining.)
The creepiest part, I'd say, was talking about this all with said person after all of the lights-sirens-confinement-medication business had died down and things had settled back into a usual routine, to try and piece together what the ride was like from the cockpit. It took a while to get past the shame and regret, and it was creepy stuff.
On my list of "things to do if I happen to become an all-powerful diety or otherwise gain control of the Matrix" is to put a stop to stuff like this:
http://www.voicechasers.org/News/mkbobit.html
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V121/N70/70shin-timeline.70n.html
Anyway, enough of my babbling. Take care.
-PH
rebbryan
Member
if this was my BIL then i would worry about him, but MY primary concern would be for my sister, therefore the gun IS a problem. a gun is a tool, a tool used improperly is dangerous, and a gun makes it easier to kill. the BIL can do whatever the f he wants, it's his life, but my concern would be for my sister and i would take the gun and he would never get it back. the gun is not moot
HBK
member
Sounds like you have lots of good advice on the topic. To be honest, I don't know what to tell you. I guess this just serves as a reminder that love is a b**ch.
Love is not a b**ch. You're right about it being great advice, though. Some of it validated my own thoughts and beliefs, some of it was straight up schooling from the more experienced. And I'm grateful.
I told my sister that life often hurls rocks at you. For no rhyme or reason, just when you least expect it, and you can never completely prepare yourself for it. What you CAN do, however, is decide HOW those rocks affect you. If you do nothing, or if you allow it, those rocks will tie themselves around your neck and pull you down to the bottom of the abyss. If you CHOOSE TO, however, you can use those same rocks as stepping stones, or building blocks for the foundation of your life. It is a choice everyone has, in every situation, everyday. Make lemonade. My sister needed to hear it--in her mind, she was already allowing this particular rock to drag her down. And it didn't need to be that way.
Sorry for the cheesy Life 101 mumbo-jumbo.
Again, thanks to all for providing invaluable insight and advice.
Someone asked the question if the marriage sould be save and when you can tell when the marriage is over, I think it is over now. A good sign of a marriage not working out is when one person in the marriage tries to blow his own head off!
He is WAY more dangerous to himself and his family with a gun then a burgular is. Sounds like a potential death may have been avoided by taking the gun.
He is WAY more dangerous to himself and his family with a gun then a burgular is. Sounds like a potential death may have been avoided by taking the gun.
winstonsmith
Member
Uhh firestar, if he tried to blow his head off, he would have succeded and (coarse statement ahead) SooDoeNim would be asking about cleaning solvent.
IMHO the marraige can be saved if they both realize that it takes two to tango, yadda yadda yadda. They both have to want it, and it doesn't seem like they do.
IMHO the marraige can be saved if they both realize that it takes two to tango, yadda yadda yadda. They both have to want it, and it doesn't seem like they do.
Yeah, but I'm a qutter. If things aren't going well in a relationship, I move on. Good thing I get along with my wife. I have had problems with relationships like anyone else but I can see when things are not going to work out, it saves some time and a lot of hassle. No need to kill yourself over a mate, there will be others and hopefully they don't make you crazy.
Pseudonym (I hate typing weirdly spelt names) - it certainly puts you in a difficult position.
If I were in your position, I would get the ^&*& away from them and have nothing further to do with them. No offense, but the whole situation just smells like a sticky predicament waiting to happen further down the road. In which there is no "right" or "wrong" side or action to take.
If I were in your position, I would get the ^&*& away from them and have nothing further to do with them. No offense, but the whole situation just smells like a sticky predicament waiting to happen further down the road. In which there is no "right" or "wrong" side or action to take.
Having dated a psychologist for a while I know how manipulative they can be without you even realizing it. They constantly play with your mind -- it's what they do. I also have a sister who is manipulative, although not a psychologist. My recommendation is that you keep the pistol until BIL demonstrates some independence and common sense by leaving her. I know it's your sister, but I question whether psychologists should be allowed to have personal relationships (I'm not sure that I'm not serious).
Once this happily married couple put this behind them, take your BIL shooting and let him use his Sig. If he wants to keep it at that point, it's his gun. He may prefer that you keep it, which is fine, but indicates they may still have a problem, in which case the recommendation from the first paragraph applies.
Once this happily married couple put this behind them, take your BIL shooting and let him use his Sig. If he wants to keep it at that point, it's his gun. He may prefer that you keep it, which is fine, but indicates they may still have a problem, in which case the recommendation from the first paragraph applies.
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