Black powder or Pyrodex??:confused:

[Duckster]

I bought a 1858 New Army Steel Pistol from a friend for $60 (He needed the money to make a donation to the IRA). I have been using Pyrodex (I think thats right, label fell off) since that is what the gun shop said I should use. I've never had a problem with it and I love the pistol. Here are my questions:
1. I shoot a little High, about 8" at 25'. Is this normal for this pistol or is it a result from using the wrong powder? This occurs with Ball and Conical Shot.

2. I've always cleaned it after I shoot, but how long is it safe/practical to keep gun loaded without firing it?

3. It does not seem to matter how much Pyrodex I load up with, the gun always fire wothout a hitch? Would this cause problems later?

4. Is it just me or are these guns just as powerful and deadly as modern firearms? The law seems to be different for Black Powder Firearms.

Thanks in advance for any responses. "GOD BLESS THE INFANTRY"

 

[unspellable]

Revolver

If the sights are true to the original the revolver can be expected to shoot a bit high. The original method was to aim at the body center and hit in the chest.

Two hard rules for the amount of powder. 1: NO air space! That can cause things to come unglued. 2: Even with excess space taken up with wads, there is a minimum as you must reliably blow the bullet out the end of the barrel rather than getting it stuck in the barrel. Other wise, the choice of powder charge is a matter of finding what charge gives the best accuracy, best velocity, etc., and deciding whch effect you are after. You don't have to worry about too much powder unless it has a brass frame, in which case enough full house loads will eventually cause it to loosen up. Best accuracy is generally obtained with something less than a full load and more than a minimum load.

The old cap & ball revolvers did the job. There are modern revolvers that will outclass them, but they still are not to be sneezed at. A 1958 Remington is probably as good a man stopper as a six inch barreled 38 Special.

I never leave my cap & ball guns loaded, mainly as a safety issue in regard to accidental discharge, rather than any thing to do with corrosion or what ever in the gun. Left loaded long enough with any humidity I would expect some corrosion.

 

[Cap n Ball]

24 grains black powder gives me the best results in my 1858. High shots can also be caused by flinching or jerking the trigger. I used pyrodex when I initially began shooting cap and ball guns but I didn't like the results as much as with the real thing. About the only substitute powder that I will use is 777.

 

[Sistema1927]

I bought a 1858 New Army Steel Pistol from a friend for $60 (He needed the money to make a donation to the IRA).

I knew that the darned irish in Boston were prone to do stuff like this, but in El Paso? Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to ship the gun off to the IRA instead of the cash?

 

[mykeal]

Unspellable +1

Unspellable pretty much hit it on the head. Good response.

Just wanted to add a few cents about the difference between modern (smokeless powder) guns and black powder guns:

Black powder guns are just as deadly as modern weapons in general. While they may not match up in terms of muzzle velocity or POI energy with their modern counterparts in all cases, the difference is not enough to matter most of the time.

The reason they are treated differently by the law is that they are harder and slower to load. No gang banger (or cop) is going to want to stop in a firefight and get out his powder flask. Plus, the fact that you are essentially building a bullet each time you load means that there can be some significant inconsistencies in the results, especially under duress. Lots of Civil War soldiers shot their ramrods at the other side. A Ruger SP101 with a speed loader is much more desireable in a fight than an 1851 Navy with a bag full of round balls, a powder flask, some Crisco, wads and a bunch of caps.

So, for the first 5 or 6 shots, they are essentially the same, but after that the bad guys (and the good guys for that matter) are going to want something that can be reloaded quickly and used reliably, time after time.

 

[Plink]

Using any charge that fits in the cylinder isn't going to harm steel BP revolvers any. The pressures they generate, even at max charge, is way below the safe pressure threshold of the steel, so no worries there. That said, your most accurate load is going to be lower than the maximum. Generally loads in the 20-25 grain range seem to be most accurate in the 1858's that I've shot.

If Pyrodex works well for you, use it. Just realize that it's just as corrosive, if not slightly more so, than real black powder. It also leaves as much fouling and is sometimes harder to clean. Finding real black powder is hard in many areas though, so Pyrodex is a good compromise if it works well in your gun.

Just be sure to clean it thoroughly after shooting it. Hot soapy water works great to remove the corrosive salts. The heat helps evaporate out any remaining water. Oil it well afterwards to prevent rust.

Black powder guns are plenty powerful alright. They're generally not up to smokeless powder performance for their caliber, but as Unspellable said, your gun is probably easily the equal of a .38 Special in performance. Not a magnum by any means, but certainly no slouch either.

As for shooting high, I don't know what powder charge you're using, but you might try experimenting and see if a different charge doesn't bring your groups down some. Otherwise, you can file the rear sight down (top of sight AND groove) a tiny bit to lower groups. Teeny, tiny, bit at a time. It's easier to remove more metal than it is to put it back on!

Enjoy

 

[Duckster]

Thanks for the replys

Thanks for the replys. The info was very informative.
The high shots were very well grouped. Like I first wrote, about 8" at 25'.
About the Irish, I bought it from my friend when I was in Virginia. Now I'm stationed here in El Paso. You really don't think I came out here of my own free will do you?

 

[Gewehr98]

BP when unfired isn't the corrosion problem.

It's the combustion products of BP (and Pyrodex, to an even greater degree) that cause corrosion in gun steels.

 

[Plink]

Duckster, I'm in El Paso myself! Not stationed here either. I just kinda grew roots and have had a helluva time getting out. If you were at the last gunshow, I'm the long haired feller who was next to the knife dealer and had all the muzzleloader rifles for sale.

 

[Tbu61]

I don't recommend leaving a BP gun loaded unless you can positively guarantee a warm dry environment. Exposed powder can absorb moisture.

And yes.... even small BP revolvers can be DEADLY. My home town had a fatality some years ago. A Police Officer responded to a disturbance and took a ball from 1849 pocket model, (of all things). One .32 caliber hole in his noggin, one funeral...

Doesn't matter how you get the lead flying, if it hits a vital area, stuff is bound to happen.

 

[unspellable]

C&B revolvers

They didn't lug those things around in the Civil War for beating each other over the head with them. Not but what a few noggins probably got conked that way.

 

[mec]

[I...."]took a ball from 1849 pocket model,.." [/I]

Thanks. the pocket models were the number one Colt Percussion type in sales, buffalo bill carried one in his pony express days and we found one from the robert e. lee family. This is the first story Ive heard of somebody actually being killed with one.