Blazer .357 JHP is slower than standard pressure .38 Special!!!

[Macchina]

Ammo in question:


I have an older box (probably 15 years old) of Blazer .357 158g JHP (Type 3542, Aluminum Cased) ammo that I shot over my Master F1 Chronograph. It clocked 1044 FPS from my 4.2" Ruger SP101. I was pretty happy with this, but noticed it was a whole 150 FPS slower than advertised. I thought this may be due to age. On CCI Blazer's own website the ammo is supposed to go 1150 FPS from a 4" vented barrel. This is by no means a barn burner, and a 158g load at 1150 FPS from a 4" barrel is a pretty light load compared to many current offerings. I purchased two more boxes at Walmart a few weeks ago and decided to run those over my chronograph as well. I shot them from my snub and the SP101. The average velocity of 5 rounds:

Blazer .357 158g JHP, Type 3542 (lot#: L24U5):
Ruger SP101 .357 4.2" barrel: 810 FPS
Ruger LCR .357 1.875" barrel: 818 FPS

That's right: CCI claims this stuff should go 1150 FPS from a 4" vented barrel, and it actually clocks 810 FPS from a 4.2" barrel! Not only that, but it's traveling faster from a SNUB! Talk about running out of gas... This .357 MAGNUM load is about the same speed as a similar weight bullet out of STANDARD PRESSURE .38 SPECIAL.

I emailed CCI about this and the guy who responded was very helpful and kind at first. He asked me for the lot number, then tested ammo from that same lot, but through a 10" test barrel. Coming out of a much longer test barrel, the ammo was traveling 1155 FPS. He proceeded to tell me that the test shows it actually goes faster than CCI advertises it should. I asked him several times why the chart claims an 1150 FPS speed from a 4" vented barrel when they are testing it in a 10" test barrel. After beating around the bush through many emails he finally admitted that they test all of their ammo in the 10" test barrel and run it through an equation to calculate the speed from a 4" vented barrel. I'm sure he felt as stupid as it sounds as he typed it. I of course asked him what the equation was that takes 1155 FPS from a 10" barrel and calculates the ammo will travel 5 FPS slower from a barrel 6" shorter.

I am still waiting on a response and it's been a bit so I assume he's done talking to me. Through this whole email exchange he kept suggesting that my gun is malfunctioning or my chronograph is measuring the gas speed instead of the bullet speed. Each time he suggested something wrong with my setup (which there could have been, but I'm quite sure there wasn't) I pleaded with him to measure the velocity of this ammo through a 4" barrel instead of a 10" barrel. He never even referenced my requests and acted as if barrel length did not have an effect on velocity.

Bottom line: I will never buy CCI centerfire ammo again. I do not trust a company that makes such extreme jumps in logic when it comes to trusting a small explosion happening 1/2" from my mouse-hand. Instead of once admitting that I may have been on to something.



TL;DR: CCI Blazer .357 158g JHP (Type 3542) chronographs at 810 FPS while they claim it should travel 1150 FPS.

 

[eldon519]

Did you test anything else through your chrono that day to see how it measured? It might be a way to eliminate the chrono as a variable. Maybe try it against another brand or against some .38 Special in the same session.

 

[Macchina]

Yes. The Blazer was brought along as an afterthought. I tested almost a hundred different rounds that day and got all predictable results.

 

[sgt127]

Did it "feel" like a poop load? That's really weak for anything labeled .357 Magnum, dang.

 

[Macchina]

Did it "feel" like a poop load? That's really weak for anything labeled .357 Magnum, dang.

It felt 100% like a .38 Special. I could also feel a significant difference between the older ammo (1044 FPS) and the new load (810 FPS).

Also, I've experienced measuring the gas before (with smokey hand loads) and it usually registers as a couple hundred FPS and never this consistent across 10 shots.

 

[bluetopper]

In the days before I started reloading I used to buy CCI Blazer aluminum 9mm 115gr ammo. It was very powerful and hot.

I suggest not buying any more of their 357 if you don't like it.

 

[Macchina]

I have 2 problems here:

1. I found (or at least raised the question) of a severe underloading in this lot of ammo. I even tested another lot of the exact same ammo and found significant differences. When I brought this up to CCI, they basically told me I made a mistake and their answer raised the second question...

2. Why on earth would an ammo company shoot ammo in a 10" test barrel then claim a velocity of 5 FPS less from a 4" vented barrel? This really feels like CCI could care less about the product they're delivering. How would we feel if a car company drove a hybrid then used an "equation" to calculate the claimed fuel economy for your F-150?

 

[Kernel]

my chronograph is measuring the gas speed instead of the bullet speed

Not likely. Gas speed is HIGHER. He should of known that.

I think the bottom line here is: that ammo meets all their requirements. Your requirements are something different.

 

[rcmodel]

You tested 100+ loads through a coronagraph in one day?
Like enough of each load to get any meaningful results with each load?

Like, that's 1,000 - 2,000 rounds in one setting.
At least!

WoW!
You are fo sure, an Iron Man!
And Harder then Woodpecker Lips too!

rc

 

[Macchina]

Not likely. Gas speed is HIGHER. He should of known that.

I think the bottom line here is: that ammo meets all their requirements. Your requirements are something different.

I believe the gas speed is only faster than the bullet for the first few feet. The problem occurs when your gas and bullet get to the chrono at roughly the same time. Then you get errors and irregular readings.

I don't think gas readings would ever deliver an ES of 40 FPS or the same numbers (within 10 FPS) between 2 guns.

 

[Macchina]

You tested 100+ loads through a coronagraph in one day?
Like enough of each load to get any meaningful results with each load?

Like, that's 1,000 - 2,000 rounds in one setting.
At least!

WoW!
You are fo sure, are an Iron Man!
And Harder then Woodpecker Lips!

rc

No , I said "almost 100 different rounds"... not different loads. I wish I could shoot that much in a day, but some of my handloads were max+ loads of H110 through a 17 oz. Ruger LCR with hard plastic laser grips... Actually not to bad but I bet I'd feel a couple thousand of them.

 

[788Ham]

I bought 20 boxes of that same Blazer .357 mag ammo back in 85, I still have 15 boxes of it, same bullet style. I shot some about 4 months ago, still as strong recoil as it was when I bought it. I also bought 20 boxes of .38 Spl ammo at the same time, hey @ $2.00 a box, who wouldn't? The .38 Spl ammo seems to be hotter than what you can buy now also.

 

[amd6547]

I have shot Blazer aluminum 357 mag, bought in the last year, and it seemed closer to the 1100fps range...hotter than a +P 38spl, but not full 357 by any means. Shot well in my revolvers.
The Blazer brass is hotter still.
Strangely, my LGS charges almost the same price, so I buy the brass.

 

[Macchina]

Had anybody else chrono'd this load?

 

[Jaymo]

This is why I like Buffalo Bore ammo.
Real world velocities and no BS.

 

[huey148]

Screw me.... I got boxes if this crap I bought at a good price.... Range fodder now.... Actually... This is a good excuse to go get a Chrono myself..... silver linings

 

[22-rimfire]

I won't buy the aluminum cased Blazer ammo. I purchased some 40 S&W years ago and shot it and to my dismay, I could watch the bullets arc to the target (not just an occasional glimpse, but most of the entire flight path). I have since learned a few things and don't take this as an absolute negative. But I still tend to think in terms of "fast as a speeding bullet".

People say "range fodder"... okay. But what good does it do you as a shooter when the bullet impacts so differently from your normal ammunition? I see little benefit in shooting like this.

The only reason I would buy any Blaser aluminum cased ammunition now is if I have absolutely no other ammunition for that caliber. I'll buy a box just to have it available. Available for what I sometimes ask myself? It must be a character flaw.

 

[buck460XVR]

People say "range fodder"... okay. But what good does it do you as a shooter when the bullet impacts so differently from your normal ammunition? I see little benefit in shooting like this.

IMHO, For the average handgun shooter that mainly shoots at ranges of 15 yards or less, odds are the differences in POI from their other ammo is no different than the difference in POI from their own shooting abilities, or the difference between any other practice ammo and their "regular" ammo.

I haven't shot Blazer ammo for a dozen years or so, but when I did, while it was a tad anemic, it was fairly accurate and a good bang for the buck. It also was a good alternative to other higher recoiling factory loads when introducing new shooters to my magnum handguns. Now that I reload, I make my own "anemic" ammo for those purposes......and yes, they too have a difference in POI than my "regular" ammo.