block hammer on Ruger LCP/LC9 with thumb?

[Jack Worf]

Hi,

can someone please tell me, whether you can prevent a handgun from firing by pressing your thumb on the back of one these guns, in order to supress the hammer:

Ruger LCP
Ruger LC9
SCCY CPX-2
S&W 642

in a similar way one could do it with eg. a CZ 75 or H&K P30?

As the above 4 handguns (which I'm unfamiliar with) have an internal hammer, I don't know whether the hammer would protrude enough to be able to suppress it.

Would it be difficult to do so? Is it possible at all?
When doing it with a HK P30 I can use full force on the hammer as well as on the trigger, without any chance of firing. Would that also hold true for the 4 above mentioned pistols?

From the pictures on this site:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2013/02/19/sccy-cpx-2-review/
I assume, that the SCCY can't do it.

Kind regards
Jack

 

[Kach33]

First post here, been looking everyday for a long time. Great site with great members and info..now to the op. I can only speak on the s&w 642 because that's the only one of the four I own (probably will own the lc9 very soon as well) the 642 hammer is completely conceald you can't even see it let alone block it to keep the gun from firing...I really like that pistol btw, a little rough on the hands sometimes but a great gun

 

[marv]

You can wrap your mitt around that 642 or any other DA revolver and squeeze tight enough to bind the cylinder and it won't fire. However, if the gun is already cocked you are in deep doo-doo. Even if the bullet misses you will have a badly burned/cut hand.

 

[2wheels]

As Kach said, it's a definite no on the 642.

As for the others, I can't help ya.

 

[g_one]

Definitely not on the LCP.

It's got a short hammer (think shrouded revolver, kind of?), that sits inside the slide. It's there, and you can see it, but there's no reaching it. See below (not my pic):

 

[weblance]

The LC9 is the same as the LCP. Could you do it yourself? Maybe, if you jam your finger into a really small slot. Can an attacker do it during a struggle? I doubt it.

 

[2wheels]

I bet he's asking this because he places his thumb on the back of the hammer while reholstering to prevent NDs, rather than to disable someone else's gun in a fight.

It is afterall, a pretty specific list.

 

[Mayvik]

99.9% sure that is a no on the Sccy as well...too lazy to go open the safe and check but it is fully shrouded like LCP IIRC.

 

[MedWheeler]

Both Rugers, the SCCY, and all the Kel-Tecs have shrouded hammers. You cannot reach them with your finger or thumb.

These hammers are never at a full-cock position, anyway; they are always at rest (SCCY, Kel-Tec P11), or partially set against the sear (LC9, PF9, LCP.) So, there is no need to "block" them during a de-cock, as no de-cock is possible, or during a re-holster.

 

[pockets]

If you have the time and advantage to reach out and block a hammer of a semi-auto pistol pointed at you.........
Would it not be simpler to just push the slide out of battery?
Good luck with either maneuver though.

.

 

[Gary A]

I'm thinking this question is being asked in regard to drafting a piece of fiction writing. That is the only place this would or could occur.

 

[IBEWBULL]

Interesting

I am at a loss as to the reason for the question for one thing.


One thing I would like to note is that in single action guns like the Colt Pony ahnd new Sig .380 which is similar. The safety will not lock the slide so it would be prudent to put a thumb on the rear of the slide to prevent it going out of battery when holstering. This always bothered me. I would prefer the slide to be locked. Just my preference and I am sure some other folks would like it as is since the round can be jacked in or out of the chamber with the safety on. You have to take the good with the bad.

The assumption that grabbing a gun to possibly disable it is just like grabbing a poisonous snake. It may work once on a while but I for one am not going to do it.

Well I have said my piece now and it is time for lunch.

Have a great day and please pray for our Republic in these confusing end times.
Read the Book and learn something. God sent us a message for a reason.

 

[Jim K]

In fiction, anything is possible. But my advice to you is that, unless you are really a firearms expert, you stick to generalities lest you end up looking foolish. If you pretend to expertise you don't have, you get egg on your face with folks who do have that expertise. Contrast these two paragraphs:

The detective drew his gun and moved back into the dark doorway to await the killer...

The detective drew his .37mm caliper Smyth and Western Cobra automatic revolver from its Grandpa Joe scabbard. He checked the snub nozzle and the drum to see if he had enough bullits and then pulled back the clicker thingy before pushing the purple button to get the gun ready to pulsate..."

The first is spare, descriptive writing. The second is complete nonsense, full of silly pseudo-technical gibberish. It is "better" only if the writer is being paid by the word, and has an idiot for an editor.

Jim

 

[2wheels]

Again, he could be asking because some people place their thumbs on the back of the hammer on DA handguns while reholstering. I've seen people like Ayoob teach this technique.

 

[Jack Worf]

Thanks for your replies.

"2wheels" is right. My question was regarding reholstering. Specifically: Appendix-IWB-carry. I didn't see any reason to elaborate on this, as I was asking a simple, technical straightforward question without any evaluative context.

Sorry, if I failed to meet any prerequisits.

Thanks again
Jack

 

[hariph creek]

Hey Jack, I follow you. I do the same thing when I reholster. It's the main reason I prefer hammer fired guns over striker fired.

While you can't really cover the hammer on your listed guns. The trigger pull is so long stiff (that's what she said!) that I wouldn't worry too much. You'd have to push pretty hard to have a ND.

Sorry you had such a snooty response. Don't let it discourage you. Usually people here live up to the name, "The High Road."

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Seems as though putting your thumb on the back of the SLIDE (and ON the hammer with the guns you mention) to limit slide movement would do what you want done -- by keeping the slide from shifting back and unintentionally cycling (in the case of DAO guns) or cocking the hammer.

I carried a similar P3AT in a pocket holster a LOT over a year or so and NEVER noticed a problem. Similarly, I sometimes carry a K-T PF9 (which is similar to the LC9) in a pocket holster and IWB holster, and never noticed problems there.

Holstering any of these small guns, when in a pocket or IWB holster, can be a challenge. I've never really been all that enthused about appendix carry, and when driving or sitting, all modes of carry seem to have their own unique issues.

 

[moxie]

The answer is no. Pressing your thumb on the back of the listed guns will not prevent them from firing.

Also, when holstering a small gun with a pocket holster, the correct procedure is place the gun in the holster and then carefully put the holstered gun in your pocket. Don't try putting the gun directly in your pocket or in a holster in your pocket.

Holstering in an IWB holster depends mainly on whether it stays open or not. Each holster/gun combination is specific.

 

[rcmodel]

Would it not be simpler to just push the slide out of battery?

No.

Try it and you will find the guy holding the gun can back his arm up up faster then you can push against the slide with 16 - 24 pounds force.

Not to mention, a direct shove against any semi-auto will be pushing against the muzzle of the gun as well as the slide.
Direct blowback operated slides will not move a frog hair.
And a lot of guns anymore have full-length guide-rods, which will only push the gun back, not just the slide.

All pushing on a slide will do for you is get you an extra hole in your hand, just before you get the hole in your body.

rc

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The answer is no. Pressing your thumb on the back of the listed guns will not prevent them from firing.

I agree that holstering the gun before reinserting it in the pocket is good practice --and I've always done that because it's just easier. (With my LCP and P3AT it wasn't as necessary, but just worked better -- but with my PF9, it IS necessary. There's just not enough room to practically reholster, even though there's nothing else in that pocket but the holster. (I had my holster maker -- Eric Larsen - build me two heavy leather holsters for those guns, with a thick THUMB tab on them that helps me lever the gun out of the holster more easily. There's also a tab on the holster -- a big "leather" hook -- that catches on the fabric inside the pocket, too, making the holster stay there.

If we assume that you're correct that putting the thumb on the back of the slide (to prevent slide movement) will NOT prevent the gun from firing, what combination of activities or movements is activating the trigger, hammer, or firing pin that would cause an accidental discharge? My finger is not near the trigger when reholstering (in the pocket), and there's nothing else in the pocket but the holster. And why wouldn't that also be a problem even when inserting the gun into the holster if it's done outside the pocket?

 

[hariph creek]

Ugh! It's not to keep the slide from moving. You can do that with ANY semi auto.
It's not to disable an attackers weapon.
Has nobody actually read the posts?

The object is to place your thumb on the hammer when reholstering. IF for whatever reason something contacts the trigger and begins to cycle it. You can feel the hammer start to move. You are then aware that you have a problem and need to stop and figure it out.
As opposed to a striker fired gun with a light short trigger action. Where first indication of accidental trigger contact might be "Glock leg."
Of course we all know to keep our finger out of the trigger guard. But things happen, holsters collapse, clothing gets in the way, etc...

It probably won't happen but, it has happened. For some people it's where their comfort level is.

 

[moxie]

Walt,
As noted above, holsters collapse, clothing gets in the way, and we FORGET that something's in the pocket.

With due deference to Lt. Col. Cooper, "All pockets are always loaded."

 

[Walt Sherrill]

...Ugh! It's not to keep the slide from moving. You can do that with ANY semi auto.

Well, for a couple of the guns in question, putting the thumb on the rear of the slide DOES NOT keep the hammer from moving. You could, in theory, still work the hammer by pulling the trigger, intentionally or accidentally.

Letting the slide move, however, can allow the hammer to move -- will move it, in fact, as it does when the gun fires and the slide is cycled by the force of the previous shot.

In the case of SAO or DA/SA guns, that slide movement could leave you with a cocked weapon and a functionally lighter trigger, or in the case of (semi?) DAO weapons (like the Rugers mentioned), with a hammer retracted almost to the "breaking point" (i.e., where it will slam forward with enough force) and possibly discharge the weapon, should there be an unhappy coincidence of slide going back and forward quickly (Unlikely, I agree, but arguably possible.) While I've had those Ruger guns or ones similar, that's possible in theory; I don't know if it's possible in the real world -- and I don't know/remember what role a firing pin block might play in these designs (or if they are included in those designs.) The Ruger and Kel-Tec guns are pretty basic.

Moxie's answer, above, is probably the best one -- quoting (or paraphrasing) Cooper: "All pockets are always loaded."