Blood In The Streets!

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Fairlane63

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From the Pensacola News Journal-- a paper that I find to be pretty pathetic on non-gun issues too...

"I suppose a state where everyone is presumed armed and dangerous would deter crime to some extent."-- at least she got that part right.


http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050923/OPINION/509230307/1020

Published - September, 23, 2005
New law raises your risk on the street
Chemarryn [email protected]

There's lots of spin out there.

But there's one fact that can't be manipulated by those left or right of center: No man is perfect. There may be those who are closer to perfection than others, but all of us make mistakes.

Because man is not perfect, it would defy logic to assume that every law made by man is infallible. The act of amending or rescinding laws wouldn't be necessary if that were true.

Most decent citizens will abide by the law, even when their principles come into conflict with the legislation. Laws, after all, are the modern-day commandments that protect and serve us.

But what happens when a law goes into effect that shakes your very core? A law that gives Floridians the right to take a life, as long as those who feel threatened are where they have "a right to be"?

What happens when a law goes into effect that masquerades as self-defense for you and your loved ones, but actually places them in more danger than they would be without it?

Senate Bill 436, which takes effect Oct. 1, is just that kind of law.

The bill "provides that a person is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for using deadly force" unless probable cause exists showing the force was unlawful.

I am a fan of self-defense; I firmly believe that if you are threatened or in imminent physical harm, you should act quickly and appropriately. Prior to SB 436, however, there already were laws in place regarding self-defense.

We need laws to discourage killing, not encourage it.

This law does not help me and you -- clear-thinking people who live our day-to-day lives with little or no thought of ill will toward others.

It helps the tiny minority of those who would do harm, giving them a reason to believe their way of doing things is not only the right way, but the lawful one.

Floridians had the right to use deadly force while defending themselves in public as long as they attempted to retreat beforehand. Believing that was too much to ask, SB 436 declares "that a person has no duty to retreat" and to meet "force with force" as long as that person is where he or she "has a right to be."

Proponents of the law argue that now citizens should feel safer, knowing they have the same right to protect themselves outside of their homes as they do inside. I believe, however, that the average citizen is not often, if at all, armed with a deadly weapon outside of his or her home. On the other hand, the average person looking to do harm just might be.

So what are we left with? Citizens armed at all times because, if they are not armed, what good does the law do them? I suppose a state where everyone is presumed armed and dangerous would deter crime to some extent.

But, then again, I wonder about questionable individuals who might seek to abuse and take advantage of a law that gives them the green light to take a life in the name of self-defense wherever they have the "right to be."

You should wonder if your loved ones are truly in less danger when such a law goes into effect next month.


News Journal staffer Chemarryn Thornton is a graduate of the Savannah College of Art and Design.
 
News Journal staffer Chemarryn Thornton is a graduate of the Savannah College of Art and Design.

I know that I get most of my information about self-defense from art and design college graduates - it's just the right thing to do. :uhoh:
 
News Journal staffer Chemarryn Thornton is a graduate of the Savannah College of Art and Design.
Where she no doubt carried a double major of poli-sci and criminal justice as part of her pre-law program ... Yep, that little one line bio after her op-ed piece really ramps up her credibility, all righty.
We need laws to discourage killing, not encourage it.
Evidently Chemarryn (hmm, what were her parents thinking?) is incapable of considering that the new law might just discourage killing ... by the people who commit most of the murders -- criminals?
 
The law in Florida was not created in some lab and Florida, surprise, surprise, is not the first place in the world to have abolished any retreat requirement.

Where? Where has there been such an abuse? Why up here in Indiana, the eptiome of cold, hard, uncaring Yankeeland, we have no such retreat requirement. Oddly enough I did not shoot anyone walking from the parking garage to the office today, or any other day.

(BTW, later tonight people in Indiana will drink beer and carry guns--and everything will be just ducky).
 
I'll go way out on the limb. The law does not encourage killing anyone, but given the state of affairs in today's America, It probably should. If some <fool> happens to get dead because Joeseph or Josephine Citizen let him have it during a mugging or burglary or rape, that's just tough <stuff>. Save me some tax dollars so I can fill up the tank on the Dakota.

Sam

Art's Grammaw stopped by...
 
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SCAD Bliss-ninney du Jour

This law does not help me and you -- clear-thinking people who live our day-to-day lives with little or no thought of ill will toward others.
. . . until you encounter some scumbag who does, in fact, live with ill will towards others and sees you as 'food' . This assumes you are 'clear-thinking' enough to have taken adequate precaution to protect yourself from said scumbag until the cavalry arrives. Understand that there is evil in the world, and you're on your own. Otherwise, you may 'embrace the suck.'
 
What the law does is not encourage the taking of lives indiscrimently, but to ensure that if you take a life lawfully, you cannot be sued into poverty by the anti gun bleeding heart crowd.

It seems eminently clear that if I am in a location where I have every right to be, and the safety of my wiife or mysef is threatened, I do no have to abandon my location (car, home, etc) and pehaps find myself in a far less defensible position. ( I am 62 YOA, and do not run)

I'll not shoot unless threatened, but when threatened, I will take the needed action.

JPM

ps, excuse the long absense, Parkinson's takes it's toll from time to time.
 
News Journal staffer Chemarryn Thornton is a graduate of the Savannah College of Art and Design.

Good god, do these people actually belive the dirvel that comes out of their mouths?

Stop for a second and think about what a 'duty to retreat' means, while you, your 6-year old, and 1-month old are watching your wife get raped.

Life isn't always pretty, this just takes away one preposterous legal thorn in the side of the Good Person, and then just re-affirms that a person will not be charged with a crime unless there is PC to do so (Der, due process ammendmeny anyone?)
 
The law in Florida was not created in some lab and Florida, surprise, surprise, is not the first place in the world to have abolished any retreat requirement.

A lot of places never had a "duty to retreat". Im fairly certain that Texas doesnt, and i know for a fact that Washington doesnt. I think a law that requires someone to run away is downright unamerican.
 
I believe, however, that the average citizen is not often, if at all, armed with a deadly weapon outside of his or her home.
Average citizens are not often, if at all, armed with a deadly weapon outside of their homes.

On the other hand, some citizens take responsabilty for their own safety.
 
I know that I get most of my information about self-defense from art and design college graduates - it's just the right thing to do.

Good on you! Glad you are one of the few people who have discovered that art and design folks really know what they're talking about regarding the subject!

Sincerely,

Bogie
Graphic Designer

Now where's Oleg?

PS: Regarding that writer - well, she just hasn't really had it explained to her that the law will keep good people from going to jail or being sued by bad people.
 
Sent her an e-mail...

I was directed to your article online, and I feel many of your opinions were based on specious reasoning and utterly hoplophobic. Believe it or not there are a great number of people who live in the state of Florida who are "armed at all times." Most of them are not security guards or people who have high risk jobs; they are "clear thinking people who live [their] day-to-day lives with no thought of ill will towards others." In 2004, Florida had nearly 290,000 active permit holders. Out of a population of 17 million, that's 1 in every 58 people. So while the majority of the people out there are not armed with a deadly weapon, a significant number of them are. And those who are armed are enough to cause criminals to worry; a Department of Justice survey found that 40% of incarcerated convicts interviewed had not committed a crime out of fear of the potential victim being armed. So yes, "a state where everyone is presumed armed and dangerous" does deter crime.

Your fears are unfounded. The possession of a firearm does not make someone a killer, nor does it make them more inclined to do harm to other people. SB 436 levels the playing field and reduces the number of legal hurdles a person has to go through in order to defend themself; it is not carte blanche to kill people. It requires that the act of force be deemed lawful, which means it requires the use of the self defense laws that you declared were okay. What the law does is remove the "duty to retreat" requirement, which mandated that a person had to utilize all reasonable means of escape before they used deadly force in self defense.

Your article confuses the people who follow the laws with the people who break them. The "average person looking to do harm" doesn't care about self defense laws or conceal carry permits. They are already prepared to commit murder to get what they want. What this law does is free the average citizen from the burden of showing they made every possible attempt to escape, and instead allow them to perform the "quick and appropriate" action needed to ensure their safety.

Sincerely,
Kevin Genson
 
Why does this lady suddenly think that blood will flow? Its not like this has any measureable effect on the number of guns carries in Floida. People were always allowed to shoot, they just had to attempt to get away first, which is sometimes not in the best interests of the person being attacked.

Elderly people aren't as spry as they once were. They aren't as strong as they once were. The gun is EXACTLY the force multiplier that they would need.
What about someone who is injured (on crutches per se) or handicapped.

You don't shoot until you have to and I'm sure that is quite clear in the laws on the books already.

NV has no provision requiring an attempt to retreat. It does require you to give warning, but this does include verbal warning. My grandfather, a retired police officer, once described said verbal warning to me like this:
"STOP or I'll *BANG* pull my *BANG* gun and be *BANG* forced to shoot!*BANG*
 
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