Bloomberg is at it again.

[WoofersInc]

Someone E-mailed me this link. Seems Bloomberg can't stay in New York where he belongs. When is he and his "undercovers" going to be charged with the straw purchases they are making?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gm-2NQDd2ZTOijJjHUyf--3u44uwD9B6ATM80

NYC undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
By SARA KUGLER (AP) – 2 hours ago

NEW YORK — New York City officials secretly videotaped dozens of firearm purchases they say were illegal at gun shows in states that have not closed the "gun show loophole."

The sting, described in a city report released Wednesday, was conducted at seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada. Those states are among the many that permit private unlicensed dealers, known as "occasional sellers," to sell weapons at gun shows without conducting background checks.

Gun-control advocates say the loophole makes it easier for criminals to acquire guns and prevents law enforcement from being able to trace those weapons if they are used in crimes.

Nine states, including New York, have passed laws to close the loophole, requiring background checks on at least all handgun purchases at gun shows. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has long campaigned for Congress to close the loophole, and for states to do it on their own if the federal government does not.

Even in states that haven't closed the loophole, federal law bars "occasional sellers" from selling guns to people they have reason to believe would fail a background check.

This is where the Bloomberg operation says 19 out of 30 sellers broke the law during the investigation, in which undercover buyers wore tiny cameras concealed in baseball hats and purses and audio recorders hidden in wristwatches.

In each purchase, the investigator showed interest in buying a gun, agreed on a price and then indicated that he probably could not pass a background check.

Most sellers allowed the purchases anyway, responding in some cases by saying, "I couldn't pass one either," or "I don't care," according to the city's report.

Two assault rifles and 20 semiautomatic handguns were bought this way, the report said.

The 11 who refused sales showed they knew the law.

"Once you say that, I'm kind of obligated not to," said one seller, according to the report. "I think that's what the rules are."

"Fact is, you done told me too much," said another who refused. "I wouldn't sell one to you at all."

The city has no legal authority over the dealers and is using its findings to make a point. A copy of the report is being sent to every member of Congress and the findings will be shared the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"The gun show loophole is a deadly serious problem, and this undercover operation exposes just how pervasive and serious it is," the mayor said in a statement.

The undercover operation took place from about May to August and its $1.5 million cost was paid by city taxpayers. The city hired a team of 40 private investigators from an outside firm to make the purchases.

The sting comes three years after Bloomberg's administration conducted a similar operation focusing on illegal straw purchases at gun shops in Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia that authorities believe were responsible for selling guns used in crimes in New York City. (A straw purchase is when one person fills out the paperwork and buys the gun for somebody else.)

Bloomberg's administration brought a civil case against 27 gun dealers targeted in its 2006 investigation.

As a result of the suit, 20 dealers are being monitored by a court-appointed special master. One is out of business, two more are expected to be put under monitoring agreements and three were dropped from the suit. A final dealer settled with the city but the terms did not include a monitor.

Investigators in this year's sting also attempted straw purchases at gun shows, and were successful 16 out of 17 times.

The city said it was not planning civil action this time around.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

firearm purchases they say were illegal

What a load of bull. THis guy needs to go away.

You should hear his radio campaign ads for the election next month.

"Mayor Bloomberg stood up and fought the NRA to keep illegal guns off our streets"

According to him, any gun not in NYPD hands is an illegal one.

 

[627PCFan]

What happened to the guns they bought? Someone should call the ATF for carrying illegal firearms across state lines.

 

[Speedo66]

What happened to the guns they bought? Someone should call the ATF for carrying illegal firearms across state lines.

Since they used a private firm to make the purchases, odds are good they were state residents and the guns may remain there.

If I were a NYC resident, I'd be howling mad that $1.5 million in tax money was wasted in this way.

Unless Mike just personally reached into his pocket and took out some petty cash.

He's on track to spend over $50 million in personal funds on this years election, so another $1.5 mil. wouldn't mean much.

 

[Old Fuff]

I would expect a private seller to turn down a sale after being told outright that the prospective buyer, in his own words, said that he couldn't pass a background check. Besides the obvious, this sort of thing obviously smells like a sting - or a BATF&E operation.

Hopefully, gun show promoters will warn those who rent tables that sting operations such as this one are going on. I'd think they'd see doing so to be in they're own best interests.

As for Bloomberg. One of these days he's going to overstep and get nailed. Some alert seller or show promoter is going to catch them doing what they are doing, and call the cops - pointing out that they are prohibited persons trying to make an illegal buy. Of course they will identify themselves as being part of Bloomberg's operation, but a ticked-off District Attorney in another state will press charges anyway.

 

[oneounceload]

Those states are among the many that permit private unlicensed dealers, known as "occasional sellers," to sell weapons at gun shows without conducting background checks.

As someone who lived in NV, personal FTF sales are legal, whether they occur at a gun show or in your home. These folks aren't "illegal dealers", but law-abiding citizens selling personal belongings in a lawful manner - no different than someone selling things at a big public flea-market.

Perhaps mayor Bloomberg should concentrate on keeping criminals in jail and allowing citizens to protect themselves. (I also lived in NYC)

 

[MT GUNNY]

It looks as if the Seller is breaking 2 laws. 1. they are not aloud to sell at Gun shows, they must be FFL's. 2. Once the Buyer says he couldn't pass a back ground check the seller mustn't sell to that person.

 

[Cosmoline]

seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada.

I love how the Mayor of that rat infested island thinks he's President.

 

[rbernie]

This is where the Bloomberg operation says 19 out of 30 sellers broke the law during the investigation, in which undercover buyers wore tiny cameras concealed in baseball hats and purses and audio recorders hidden in wristwatches.

In each purchase, the investigator showed interest in buying a gun, agreed on a price and then indicated that he probably could not pass a background check.

Most sellers allowed the purchases anyway, responding in some cases by saying, "I couldn't pass one either," or "I don't care," according to the city's report.

Like it or not guys, sometimes we ARE our own worst enemy.

I, like many of you, take exception to Bloomberg's motives and tactics. His characterization of private sales as a 'loophole' is flatly dishonest. But it's irrefutable that it is against Federal law for any individual, licensed or not, to sell to a prohibited buyer. Those who KNOWINGLY sell to self-avowed prohibited buyers should not be celebrated in our ranks, IMO.

 

[Cosmoline]

If you actually believe the story cooked up by Bloomberg's goons, I'm sure he has a bridge to sell you. Real cheap!

 

[Samgotit]

The video report:

http://www.gunshowundercover.org/

 

[HexHead]

While I'm not completely convinced the people selling weren't in on it with the buyers to make this inflammatory tape, we can be our own worst enemies. If you ask the guy if he's legally allowed to buy the gun and he says "no", don't sell it to him. Jeez.

I wouldn't put it past Bloomberg for this whole thing to be staged for his purposes though.

 

[Spirit 1]

"The sting, described in a city report released Wednesday, was conducted at seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada."

"The undercover operation took place from about May to August and its $1.5 million cost was paid by city taxpayers. The city hired a team of 40 private investigators from an outside firm to make the purchases."

Purchases made outside of the city, even outside of the state, that had no bearing on City affairs, but City funds financed it? Sure sounds like a clear cut case of Fraud, Waste & Abuse of Power.

 

[rogertc1]

Feel sorry for gun owners in NYC (If any). What a screwed up city.

 

[inherentical]

Hell, I'm sure I couldn't pass a background check in NYC, either.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Gaaaaaaaa!!!

Gun-control advocates say the loophole makes it easier for criminals to acquire guns and prevents law enforcement from being able to trace those weapons if they are used in crimes.

First off, what loophole in the law? If it isn't against the law in the first place, there is no loophole! Secondly, what does tracing a gun used in a crime have to do with solving the crime and convicting the criminal? NOTHING!

Litany of blue, profane, derogatory, and truly felt explicatives withheld for the protection of our children and the tender of ear.

Woody

Though we may still exercise our Right to Keep and Bear Arms after filling out a bunch of paperwork, the real issue is the unconstitutional infringement the paperwork represents. B.E.Wood

 

[hnk45acp]

Living under his yoke for the last 8 years has been horrible! We're trying everything here to get him out! Although the videos are incriminating to some dealers it doesn't show the tons of illegal/criminal sales that happen ANYWAY! Another example of punishing the law abiding for the few criminals.

Also: THIS JUST IN
You can buy pot down at the local high school
We need to ban pot!

 

[Erik M]

Am I reading this article correctly? Does it actually suggest that investigators from NYC went to other states to investigate gun sales that are occurring hundreds even thousands of miles outside of thier jurisdiction?

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Am I reading this article correctly? Does it actually suggest that investigators from NYC went to other states to investigate gun sales that are occurring hundreds even thousands of miles outside of thier jurisdiction?

Yes, rather than simply admit the idiocy of the laws in states like NJ, NY, MA, CA, etc. these guys are going to other states and saying how THEIR gun laws are what is making NYC/etc.'s not work.

 

[Phatty]

But it's irrefutable that it is against Federal law for any individual, licensed or not, to sell to a prohibited buyer.

Is it illegal to sell a gun to a buyer who says he is prohibited from purchasing a gun, but in actuality, the buyer is not prohibited (i.e. he is lying or is mistaken)?

What I'm getting at is whether these dealers at the gun shows committed any crime when they sold the guns to the NYC investigators. Even though the investigators said they probably wouldn't pass a background check, I'm sure they were lying and actually could legally purchase a gun (otherwise they would be committing a crime themselves).

 

[paintballdude902]

bloomberg if u want to go ahead and get them to make a law saying you have tobe a dealer to sell at a gun show sure go ahead cause ill just walk out side of the gunshow and do a f2f deal there

now if they get rid of f2f sales then ill be pissed

 

[rbernie]

Is it illegal to sell a gun to a buyer who says he is prohibited from purchasing a gun, but in actuality, the buyer is not prohibited (i.e. he is lying or is mistaken)?

Yes.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

The minute that a buyer indicates that he may be a prohibited person, the sale must stop.

 

[Z-Michigan]

bloomberg if u want to go ahead and get them to make a law saying you have tobe a dealer to sell at a gun show sure go ahead cause ill just walk out side of the gunshow and do a f2f deal there

now if they get rid of f2f sales then ill be pissed

In general, proposals to "close" the so-called "gun show loophole" would also prohibit all face-to-face sales.

This whole thing is a travesty and a huge waste of money. I also suspect that laws were broken by the investigators, whether by illegally purchasing guns outside their home state or by using local straw purchasers.

Regardless, though, I can believe that there are unscrupulous gun show sellers who would complete sales after a person says they wouldn't pass a background check.

 

[Foofles]

So he wants to prove the existence of a legal loophole by using people breaking the law as an example?

Lovely. And seriously, can he even do that, send NYPD out to the other ends of the country? This guy's a whackjob, I'm sick of him already.

 

[Cosmoline]

Bloomberg's agents, operating well outside their jurisdiction, have themselves broken federal law:

(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

18 US 922(a)(6)

In other words, if they lied about the check to anyone who happened to have a license (even a C&R) they should be arrested.