Let me guess you live in the metro? I know guys in hunting groups who take 15-20 cats a year in the same area. I have seen 3 in 20 yrs of hunting while hunting other species. I see a lot more when hunting or trapping them. Why would there be a season if the numbers were so low? Your arguement is the exact reason for the wolf problem in MN.
bobcat hunting
- Thread starter dubya450
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Well, HGUNHNTR, in my example, that rancher gained about $10,000 in gross income for the year. Sorta helped with his school taxes, which back then were $4,000 per year. Also helped pay for the original purchase price of the goats. Livestock doesn't come free to a rancher.
Folks seem to want to eat, last I heard, which means that a farmer or rancher has to make a profit in order to keep on keeping on and producing food. So, predator control. A side benefit of that effort is that there is more game for the hunter.
Heck, crows, deer and raccoons can do terrible things to a farmer's corn crop...
Folks seem to want to eat, last I heard, which means that a farmer or rancher has to make a profit in order to keep on keeping on and producing food. So, predator control. A side benefit of that effort is that there is more game for the hunter.
Heck, crows, deer and raccoons can do terrible things to a farmer's corn crop...
There are definitely plenty of bobcat here from what I understand although I've only seen 2 while deer hunting in 11 or 12 seasons, I have a few coworkers and family members who farm in Wisconsin and Minnesota and they don't speak too highly of any varmint including bobcat. If anyone is wondering, ill probably mount the cat for my garage. I think they are too beautiful of an animal to sell the pelt unless I were to hunt many over the years.
Hey Art, I understand where you're coming from, heck I grew up on a farm in Nebraska. My point is simply that profit need not trump balance. One thing my grandfather (deceased now, but a heck of a farmer and cutting horse trainer)taught me, is that it is pointless to be at war with the land and it's inhabitants. You have to learn how to work with them to be profitable, and to make sure you have something of value to pass along to your grandkids. He always railed against how chemical companies presented the farmer with the idea that they were at war with predators, insects and weeds. Just look at commercials for weedkillers and insect killers even aimed at suburbanites--kind of a war theme to most of them. He said if you take that stance you will always lose to nature, and at the great expense of the quality of food you produce, and the condition of the land you create. I'm not saying predator control at some level isn't neccesary, I just don't like the idea of killing critters you have no intention of eating just for the fun of it.
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pat86323
Member
I would say that people who think that bobcats are a rare animal need to slow down and be quieter in the woods. I have seen 4 in the last year, and there are tons more then that. These animals are very stealthy and their camo is greatly underestimated. If they know you are there they dont always run off like a coyote, they will just hunker down and quietly wait for you to leave, thus you never see them. I have also heard of lots of people eating them. I shot one at 8 yards on opening morning of archery deer season last year, very little pelt damage and now he looks really good on my wall. To answer the op's question.....why not just use a 22?
Your statement is misleading, and I've hunted bobcat. You(we)are the reason for the imbalance, not the bobcat, or any other predator for that matter, just humans are responsible.
So, please don't construct your response as though you're doing nature a favor, you're not! Predator hunting is highly controversial, you should plainly understand that, most hunters don't approve of us shooting/trapping these predators, just a fact!
Uh, I don't think this is a fact. Maybe where you live "most hunters don't approve" but in the places where I hunt (Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Montana, Wyoming, Arkansas and Mississippi every year and a few others every couple of years) it is pretty much the norm. Every single land owner I hunt with encourages the shooting of predators within the law. Humans have created an imbalance by providing a relatively easy source of food for these predators. I guess we could all stop eating beef and then my incentive to remove predators would fall off.
Coyotes were around for a long time before they spread as far as they have but there was not enough food for them to thrive in the southeast 200 years ago. Now anyone who goes anywhere in the outdoors realizes that they are a nuisance. Where I live there is no limit and no closed season on coyote so I guess the state of Alabama approves of predator hunting.
Those of us who own farms, ranches or any kind of livestock are going to remove predators from our farms as often as possible. I don't fling bullets at every coyote I see but I will kill them if a good opportunity comes up and I let hunters call them outside of deer season.
I never said we din't create the imbalance but as people encroach wildlife it is needed to provide a balance or rebalance. I do not give a rats behind what others think of predator hunting. I enjoy all types of hunting and will hunt and trap cats as long as it is legal. Some real FACTS for you about predator control, since it was started around areas with good nesting habitat for waterfowl the population began to rebound. More and more trapping and hunting in the pothole states allows for better duck broods. That IS doing nature a favor so get off your high horse.
Don't you have game wardens / DNR where you live?
Don't they evaluate populations and set limits and [closed or open] seasons on different animals? (Including predators)
Don't these numbers change every year?
What do you think these rules/seasons/limits are for?
Shooting predator animals at or under the legal limit is helping to balance the population, as deemed appropriate by those that manage these populations for a living. It is what they do.
Don't they evaluate populations and set limits and [closed or open] seasons on different animals? (Including predators)
Don't these numbers change every year?
What do you think these rules/seasons/limits are for?
Shooting predator animals at or under the legal limit is helping to balance the population, as deemed appropriate by those that manage these populations for a living. It is what they do.
Coyotes are a problem in Minnesota, numbers are up every year. Bob cats, farm cats, snakes and coyotes effect upland bird populations and duck populations. Coyotes learn where the easy meals are and are working closer and closer to towns every year. I have two wood duck houses I clean and maintain yearly. On years with low water levels I have had coyotes tip the metal support pole over. I have modified the wood duck houses since that time. Fox will wait along the garage and pounce on the bird feeders getting cardinals and jays. I've see crows kill owls during the daylight. Like said earlier in this thread it does not pay to fight nature. It's all in the cycle of things, killing cats, snakes and coyotes to control their population is very often necessary.
The polar ice caps on mars are melting, and its mans fault!
DMH
The polar ice caps on mars are melting, and its mans fault!
DMH
Look, I'm not chastizing, just looking to be clear as to what, and where, the problems associated with "imbalance" emerge from.
Consider, you live in Minnesota, I in Wisconsin, where combined, the two states have well in excess of two million white tail deer, as recently as 2008-9 Wisconsin's herd alone, was approaching two million animals! Balance? Back in the early 1930's there was an estimated 300,000 white tail deer, in all of the USA!
This is precisely why predator hunting is controversial, it is not possible for us to rebalance the system, and we have a serious problem unfolding as a consequence. CWD is poised to become a terrifyingly common occurrance, its spreading in the Wisconsin herd, and its not going to go away as things currently stand.
In Wisconsin, we estimate that at the time of European settlement, we had about 5,000 black bear, today the population is running between 33,000 - 40,000 animals! There is no historical precedent for these figures, a direct consequence of our interference(humans)in the natural system, especially through our virtually unchecked agricultural conquest of the land.
In Minnesota, you are losing your moose herd, its already gone from the northwestern portion of the state entirely, and its heading exactly that way in the northeast. Its now believed that they are being doomed due to a parasite, introduced through white tail deer into the environment, harmless to the deer, catastrophic to the moose.
Dozens of other examples exist, none of them very encouraging, coyotes are virtually an infestation in parts of the midwest, ranchers/farmers curse them for the scourge that they can be, however lost entirely on these good folks, is that they are largely responsible for this, an unthought of consequence of their merciless persecution of the coyotes primary natural enemy, the gray wolf! Balance?
Predator hunting needs to be closely monitored, we're not balancing anything, nature balances itself, we are clearly unbalancing the system.
You are not doing nature a favor, you are doing yourself a favor, then rationalizing it away as a contribution. What exactly is that you think you're balancing, we have almost three million deer in the two states! Why are we killing off predators? Think about that before gettng all snooty, and emotional.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
More "inciting to riot" squabbling than actual discussion.
Look: Most outdoorsmen figure that they're part of nature, one way or another. Farmers and ranchers: More four-legged predators, fewer domestic chickens and turkeys, sheep, goats, cows, horses. So, predator control via poison, trap or firearm.
Hunters: More bobcats and coyotes, fewer quail and wild turkeys. Fewer deer. Folks don't like that sort of thing, so we have the shooting of predators.
Homo sap is the top predator because homo sap is a tool-using animal. Nature/biology made us that way. All we can hope for is that our behavior is one of common-sense control, not eradication.
SFAIK, the problem in states with "too many" deer is that our rules and regs are holdovers from the time when populations were much lower. The whitetail deer gets along just fine with farming and ranching and the population grows and grows. The absence of wolves and cougars hasn't been replaced by enough predation by homo sap. Longer seasons and higher bag limits would help--along with more hunters.
So, like most interactions between people and the world we live in, we stumble along as best we can.
Look: Most outdoorsmen figure that they're part of nature, one way or another. Farmers and ranchers: More four-legged predators, fewer domestic chickens and turkeys, sheep, goats, cows, horses. So, predator control via poison, trap or firearm.
Hunters: More bobcats and coyotes, fewer quail and wild turkeys. Fewer deer. Folks don't like that sort of thing, so we have the shooting of predators.
Homo sap is the top predator because homo sap is a tool-using animal. Nature/biology made us that way. All we can hope for is that our behavior is one of common-sense control, not eradication.
SFAIK, the problem in states with "too many" deer is that our rules and regs are holdovers from the time when populations were much lower. The whitetail deer gets along just fine with farming and ranching and the population grows and grows. The absence of wolves and cougars hasn't been replaced by enough predation by homo sap. Longer seasons and higher bag limits would help--along with more hunters.
So, like most interactions between people and the world we live in, we stumble along as best we can.
daveinohio
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The number one threat to wildlife worldwide is the ever increasing human population. If you are increasing it you are doing more harm than what you do by shooting a few animals for sport, food, or profit.
That would provide real and lasting benefit for the ecosystem, our bodies, and our insurance premiums. I'll vote for that one.
Well I can agree with this. Most hunters I talk to claim that part of the reason for hunting is that they are being over run with deer. If this is part of the reason for hunting them, it would stand to reason that we dont' try to eliminate our allies in the quest to thin the herds to acceptable levels.
michaelbsc
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- 374
You don't remember we sent those two cars up there?
Of course it's our fault.
Recently(in early April)the state of Wisconsin released its annual reports on various issues pertaining to wildlife, including management of the white tail deer herd, and the upcoming wolf hunt. In their deer report they offer that the Wisconsin herd should be culled down from its current 1.4 million to some seven or eight hundred thousand, which is simply laughable.
The gray wolf season, bannered by the deer hunters association, bear hunters association(they wrote the bill), and the cattlemans association, as a check on out of control gray wolf populations, is set for later this autumn, its to be four months long, and opened too trapping, and the use of packs of radio/shock/spike collared dogs, night vision equipment(yes that means 24 hour per day hunting), right up too, and through the breeding season, "four months!"
Oh BTW, we have just under eight hundred gray wolves, as you can see, its not about balance, its about dollars, and thats all its ever been about! Now I'm a hunter, but I have to confess, it gets a little bit weird when we as a group, attempt to inculcate ourselves with this "we're doing nature a favor" mentality. "Doing nature a favor" is an intellectually dishonest rationalization to go do what we were going to do no matter what.
Well if we want to control the population of whitetails then we can completely do away with deer seasons and limits. Just let people kill what they want when they want. In very short order the population would be close to where the turkey population was 50 years ago.
This would give the government in the state a good excuse to raise taxes because they would lose the tax money associated with hunting. Deer are populous because hunters want themto be populous.
This would give the government in the state a good excuse to raise taxes because they would lose the tax money associated with hunting. Deer are populous because hunters want themto be populous.
HarcyPervin
Member
I live in Plymouth, spent my share of time out of the city as well, but I thank you for the condescending attitude. I'm not against predator hunting, just against the bandwagoning justifications some people have for it. Subsistance hunting is pretty much dead in MN, except for a very few people who may actually take animals for pelts. The rest of this is sport, and think about it before you get all puffed up. I hunt for sport, I eat the game I take, but it is not taken because I NEED it. Add up all the dollars spent on hunting and that's some damn expensive meat, but that doesn't stop us from going out in the woods.
Justifying predator hunting because there is a season is a backwards argument as well. There is a season because there is a demand for one. There is a perceived benefit, as was pointed out above, for not having predators around.
Wolf problem in MN? Not entirely. Competition for resources with a small population of wolves and a hugely oversized prey population, yes.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with hunting bobcats, wolves, coyotes or anything like that, all I pointed out is that you're completely wrong if you think you're protecting the environment or "balancing" nature. Elimination of predator species is sculpting nature, not protecting it.
HarcyPervin
Member
Feanor, I didn't read your posts before responding to MNHNTR's classic "yew sitee boys jest dont understand" post.
I think we're on the same page here. If you want to spend your time hunting predators, that's fine, just admit you do it because it is a lifestyle that you enjoy, and stop trying to convince yourself that you're saving Bambi by getting rid of the big bad bear/wolf/coyote/bobcat. We have cultivated a large population of deer/ducks/etc because there is a lot of money to be made and because we enjoy the sport.
I think we're on the same page here. If you want to spend your time hunting predators, that's fine, just admit you do it because it is a lifestyle that you enjoy, and stop trying to convince yourself that you're saving Bambi by getting rid of the big bad bear/wolf/coyote/bobcat. We have cultivated a large population of deer/ducks/etc because there is a lot of money to be made and because we enjoy the sport.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Humans are the problem, not Bobcats.
25 years ago, a developer built 200 new homes on a rocky bluff 5 miles away from here in the country.
Now, the city is there, a mother bobcat tries to raise a littler of littens under somebody's garden gnome, and kills Fluffy the house cat when they let her out to kill the quail & song birds!
And guess who has to pay?
Mama Bobcat has to pay, with her life!
For just doing what she is supposed to do.
Go to work every night, feed & protect her kittens, and make sure there are still Bobcats in the future.
rc
25 years ago, a developer built 200 new homes on a rocky bluff 5 miles away from here in the country.
Now, the city is there, a mother bobcat tries to raise a littler of littens under somebody's garden gnome, and kills Fluffy the house cat when they let her out to kill the quail & song birds!
And guess who has to pay?
Mama Bobcat has to pay, with her life!
For just doing what she is supposed to do.
Go to work every night, feed & protect her kittens, and make sure there are still Bobcats in the future.
rc
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