Body armor

[westernrover]

Back in March, I started a thread titled "loadout" that attempted to discuss the use of body armor -- both concealed and full battle rattle. Unfortunately, the thread got moved to ST&T and then a mod butchered it of all the body armor content that comprised the original intent of the thread.

What I remember from that thread was that a lot of people responding to it completely dismissed the idea that body armor has any use for a civilian. I had linked videos of John Lovell discussing his tactical "cosplay" gear and another "prepper" showing off his whole rig. I argued that while it may seem irrational to a lot of us, it makes as much sense as having any gun. I argued for the sanity and rationale behind having both a plate carrier (and helmet) as well as having concealable soft armor.

Here is someone else to make the same case:

 

[shafter]

It's just not practical for civilians. As someone who has worn all kinds, there just isn't any way to wear it discreetly in any kind of comfort. Soft armor provides mediocre protection against bullets and nothing against blades.

Often people envision that they'll have time to don full battle rattle but that's just not how violence works. Violence happens by ambush which means you roll with what you have this second. The idea of retreating to kit up is not realistic.

Would I tell people to not buy it? Eh, probably not. If people want to buy it go ahead but there are things I'd buy way before that.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Recently there has been a big push for people to take medical classes and carry first aid kits. "Stop the bleed"

I think it's great advice and very important. So I don't know why people get upset at "prevent the bleed". Many things in life that can be useful also have many drawbacks. Doesn't mean it's stupid to have.

I for one am for it. Now it's the question is usefulness of soft, hard, steel, ceramic, under, or over.

 

[trackskippy]

It has its uses. Ive worn my Level III pistol vest at work more than a few times over the years, in both the cities and the woods. Winter is better though, better concealment and they do get toasty right quick, especially if youre moving around a lot.

I used to work in the woods in an area that was "shotgun only", and some of the crap that went on around there during hunting season was pretty scary. Knew someone who lost a leg at the knee to a slug during deer season while standing in a group of people talking and some other people further along started shooting at running deer headed their way and weren't paying attention. Not that the vest would have helped there.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I have a set for myself and my wife.

I put it on once a month or so and run drills. I switch it up, too. It take armor to matches sometimes. It's a great way to carry mags and other stuff, although chest rigs are lighter.

CCW setup plus low vis armor
CCW plus carbine
CCW plus armor, rifle mags and carbine
Single strap drop plus armor and carbine

At this point, with all the stuff coming out, all the behaviors we observe... Why not? It's probably never going to hurt.

It's just another option we all hope is never necessary.

 

[DeepSouth]

Concealed carry is about compromise, very few people are willing to make the compromises that would be required to wear armor of any kind.

I am definitely one of the unwilling people, I’ll assume the risk. If someone else is will to make the compromises wearing armor will require, more power to them.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I stay away from places where i might need body armor. Including staying out of town at night.

 

[Jim Watson]

I think M. Ayoob wears a vest while coaching. He has a point.

 

[JR24]

Don’t have any but I think it’s one of those things that would be nice to have “just in case”. It’s on my list of things to eventually get when I have a few spare bucks.

That said seeing the link to the video my immediate thought is “what, is Wilson selling body armor now?” since those videos usually end up shilling some type of product (but I still watch them often).

 

[CapnMac]

A fundamental problem will always surround body armor.
There is no such thing as comfortable body armor.
To protect properly, it has to fit right, and fitting right is not comfortable. You need to "embrace the suck."

A person can become "comfortable" in armor--but, that takes training. Hard, uncomfortable training. And, that "comfort" will fade away pretty quickly. So, it needs repeating. Hot, sweaty, stinky repeating. Until it's second nature.


Also, in a helmet and plate carrier, you might as well Open Carry a longgun, you are not going to be subtle nor discrete.
And, the 'concealed' gear still requires extensive cover garments, which are not going to be terribly discrete either (and are going to make concealed carry of a firearm all the more complicated).

I've worn this gear--both kinds. I'm old, and my body and joints remind me daily about all the things I required of myself in my youth.

 

[WrongHanded]

I have some soft armor. It's either level 3 or 3a. I don't know which and I don't much care because I doubt I'll ever use it. And if I do use it, I'll likely be in the kind of situation where I'll take what I can get.

If I had to buy again, it'd be plate or nothing. Nothing being far more likely, due to the cost, weight, and chance of ever being used.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I wore my LvlIII vest once during a night shift, in the height of summer. Nearly passed out due to dehydration and overheating.
Down here in the swamp, its just not doable most of the year- unless you can strip down to the armor and nothing else, and even then you better have plenty of water. My plan is to move light, move quiet, move fast. Ounces matter.

Still, its another tool in the box. Its good to have, but Id probably spend the money now on more medical supplies, ammo, filtration equipment, etc.

 

[trackskippy]

I stay away from places where i might need body armor. Including staying out of town at night.

Best stay out of gun shops then.

If I worked in one, Id be wearing one.

 

[AlexanderA]

There are three competing considerations -- speed, armor, and weaponry. Deciding on the optimum combination was a preoccupation of naval battleship designers in the 1930's. For example, if you overloaded a ship with armor, you would pay a price in diminished speed and/or weaponry.

The same considerations apply to individuals. That said, walking around, as a civilian, in a plate carrier and helmet is ridiculous.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Often people envision that they'll have time to don full battle rattle but that's just not how violence works. Violence happens by ambush which means you roll with what you have this second.

So many assumptions that just aren't necessarily correct. I own buildings. If the alarm goes off in one of them and I have to go deal with it, I will wear body armor.

There are numerous home invasions that didn't happen as suddenly as you indicate, whereupon residents would have time to don body armor, get guns from a safe, etc. Numerous 911 calls from people upstairs as home intruders work downstairs and calls from people hiding in closets, etc. where time would have been on their sides as well.

Willeford, responding to the Sutherland Springs mass shooting had time to get body armor. Stacy, that engaged the gunman a Peach Trailer Park would have had time. People defending their homes, businesses, selves during riots like Watts would certainly have time.

Violence does not just happen by ambush. Not sure where you got that.

 

[Nodakdad]

I have invested in a few kinds. More tools in the chest the better.
May never need it but who knows, better to be prepared

 

[hso]

Back in Marc

Do you have and wear body armor? If so, what type? In what situations and how regularly?

I have it at home, but don't include it when out and about.

 

[CDW4ME]

In my "good area" and in the FL heat, I don't think I "need" body armor for going to Publix / Wal-Mart. (Oh, oh, I'm doing the anticipated threat thing!!!)
I may not feel like I "need" body armor, but I definitely "need" (despite not ever firing a round in SD) a handgun more capable than a snub, even in a "good area".

 

[Axis II]

If you feel the need to wear body armor when going grocery shopping, you may 1) wanna go see a psychiatrist. 2) just stay home. Some of y’all take this ima get into a shootout and kill the bad guy crap too serious. I wear level 3a soft armor at work and despise it. Under the shirt, over the shirt it doesn’t matter. Its heavy, its hot, and it’s uncomfortable because it restricts movement.

Wearing to the range is one thing. Buying for the hope or thought red dawn is gonna happen is insane and a waste of money. 99% of us, including me wouldn’t last 10min if the US was attacked. No amount of body armor will help you in that situation.

 

[trackskippy]

Looking at the walls, ceilings, stall walls, and table tops, at most indoor ranges kinda makes you want to wear one of those bomb proof suits the EOD guys wear.

 

[W.E.G.]

Two issues:

1. If the world changes such that you think you NEED it, you won’t be able to get it.

2. Most people are FAT - and GETTING FATTER. So, if you get it now, it won’t fit properly next year.

If you have room to store such things, try to get it cheap/second-hand. An odd fellow I know got a small con-ex box of used armor from overseas. Much of it was bloody, and quite disgusting. But some of it was nearly new. Opportunity. The price was right. I’m trying to manage the FAT part.

I still need a helmet and expensive night-vision and thermal. I might have to settle for a skateboard helmet and boy-scout flashlight.

 

[Jim Watson]

You can see Henry VIII's armor in museums. Made to fit and replaced as required, you can see him pork up.

 

[AlexanderA]

As a collector, I have all sorts of body armor, going back to a Korean-era flak vest. I wouldn't dream of wearing any of it.

Same goes for gas masks and chemical-protective suits.

ETA: I forgot about the reproduction English Civil War pikeman's armor. Same goes for that too.

 

[Robert]

I wear body armor everyday for work. If it is properly fitted and sized correctly it can be very comfortable. But it is not concealable. At least not the stuff most of us can afford. I've stood right next to the last president on stage at police week. He was wearing a vest, it was a very good one, but you could still tell. They are not easy to hide.

Body type and composition comes into play as well, the bigger you are, read fatter, the harder it is to conceal. Now, if that doesn't bother you, fine. I live in Colorado, it doesn't get what I'd call truly hot here but for maybe a few days a year. I grew up in Houston, if you live down south and think you'll just toss on the old vest and be fine you are kidding yourself. Even here I have to stay hydrated. A vest is something you have to become used to wearing. Put on a tee shirt and tape a heavy trash bag tightly around your body then put another shirt over it and go about your day. You'll see.

Soft vests only stop so many threats. IIIA will stop up to 44mag. You will not conceal a IIIA vest. They are too bulky. I wear a II or IIA, I forget, that is rated for 357 mag. When choosing a vest take into consideration that 9mm is the most common handgun round you are likely to face.

Hard armor plates are great. I have a set of Level IV triple curve ceramic plates in a Voodoo Tactical Heavy carrier backed by soft armor as my emergency set up, and it's been worn for work. It weighs 15+ pounds. I'm a fairly strong guy, but if I tried to run in that setup I'd die.

It's not enough to just have the kit and firearms. Unless you just like looking cool sitting on the couch. You have to train with it. Train with your rifle and handgun. Train while wearing armor kit. Training at emergency first aid. You have to be in some sort of shape other than round, otherwise you are a liability to yourself and those around you. This goes for me too.

If you want armor, buy the best you can afford. But more importantly, get training.

 

[FL-NC]

Body armor kept me from going home in a bag. I have a couple of leftover sets in kit bags, and I'm keeping them cause you never know. I have recently seen EMT/paramedics responding to mass shootings in body armor and helmets lately. Prior to deployments I would wear my kit alot to get more accustomed to it. I would wear it doing things like yardwork or even just hanging around the house. It looked weird but it was for a good reason.