Bolt Action Rifles - Bolt on Right

[rocinante]

I started a thread on the AK ergonomics and one of the biggest complaints was the bolt was on the right and the rigthies complain they either had to take their hand off the trigger to operate it or reach over with their left to operate it.

Most bolt action rifles have the bolt on the right. Is this an ergonomic problem too or is it just accepted?

 

[TCB in TN]

Coming from someone who was a natural lefty, but was taught to be right handed, the fact that the vast majority of all shooters are right handed makes the right handed bolt a sound design. The problem with the AK bolt being on the left is that it is a problem for the vast majority of shooters. If they built a "left hand" AK version with the bolt of the right then you woulld likely have issues as well.

 

[rocinante]

The bolts are on the right assuming you consider left and right the sides you touch when you are shouldering the rifle. Most pics are done with the top facing up and the butt facing left showing the right side.

I am a lefty so I must be missing something or not paying attention.

 

[Zak Smith]

You have basically two choices-- when running the bolt on a bolt-action rifle, you can either

* move the firing hand, and leave the weak hand either on the fore-end of the stock or under the butt (if shooting prone).

* move the weak hand.

In some conventional slung positions, using the weak hand is a no-go. It's just not possible. For offhand or non-braced positions where the weak hand is used to support the rifle, removing the weak hand may not be possible depending on rifle weight and balance.

Lefties running right-handed rifles can be faster than shooting LH rifles in some circumstances.

 

[taliv]

pretty much. i'm left handed and if i'm shooting off a bag or bipod, i can leave my left hand on the trigger and use my right to run the bolt very quickly.

if i'm slung in, it's a major PITA because my right hand is practically tied to the forearm and i have to take my left hand off the trigger, come out of position and rotate the entire gun about 40 degrees counter clockwise so i can reach over the gun with my left hand and work the bolt upside down, then get back in position. in NRA LR competition where you can only have one round at a time, i also have to insert a round with my upside-down left hand during that little procedure. pretty annoying

 

[cracked butt]

Lefties running right-handed rifles can be faster than shooting LH rifles in some circumstances.

.

pretty much. i'm left handed and if i'm shooting off a bag or bipod, i can leave my left hand on the trigger and use my right to run the bolt very quickly.

I've always been amazed that left handed varmint and benchrest rifles aren't more popular because of the above reasons.

 

[Slamfire]

At first this was hard for me to believe that anyone would ask this sort of question, but on further reflection, it only proves that bolt manipulation is a lost art.

Many years ago, more than 100 years ago, shooters were taught to operate the bolt of the rifle while keeping the buttstock firmly in the shoulder. Hard to believe but it is true. You don’t have to drop the rifle below your knees to cycle the action.

By having the bolt handle on the right side of the rifle, it is possible to hold the rifle in the shoulder using the pressure of the left hand. The right hand is then used to lift, retract, push forward, and close the bolt.

Shooters back then used to practice this until it became second nature.
This was considered a great advantage as a bolt gun could be cycled quite quickly.

Perhaps if you watch History Channel you will see a video clip of a 1930’s Marine shooter doing this with an 03, while in the prone position.

I hope I never live long enough to explain that it is un necessary to place the butt of a pump shotgun on the ground to extract the fired shotshell.

 

[sonofodin]

I find that while varmint hunting, cycling the bolt with my trigger hand is not an issue. Usually the rifles are heavy and need to be supported with my left (im right handed) so I can cycle the bolt pretty fast with my right hand if need be. As far as an AK goes, if I can balance the rifle with my right hand on the pistol grip, I'll reach up with my left and crank the bolt back. If not, I guess I'll just reach quickly up 'n over and pull it back.

 

[Limeyfellow]

At first this was hard for me to believe that anyone would ask this sort of question, but on further reflection, it only proves that bolt manipulation is a lost art.

Many years ago, more than 100 years ago, shooters were taught to operate the bolt of the rifle while keeping the buttstock firmly in the shoulder. Hard to believe but it is true. You don’t have to drop the rifle below your knees to cycle the action.

By having the bolt handle on the right side of the rifle, it is possible to hold the rifle in the shoulder using the pressure of the left hand. The right hand is then used to lift, retract, push forward, and close the bolt.

Shooters back then used to practice this until it became second nature.
This was considered a great advantage as a bolt gun could be cycled quite quickly.

+1. Its one of the old standards of shooting, since it lets you keep your sights on target and the same shooting position as last time for easy sight aquisition if the first shot didn't do the trick.

Of course this is a problem with some rifles as you pull back like that you smack yourself in the face with the bolt if you are not careful.

 

[dstorm1911]

Seeing as how the charging handle if fixed on the AK..... I'd really rather not have it smackin me in the nose for every shot! Soooo o.k I gotta big nose already....... sheesh LOL, Fals G3s/Cetmes etc... have floating charging handles they don't cycle with the carrier so no problem

Slamfire another +1 here

off topic but why don't I have an icon for quoting too?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Of course this is a problem with some rifles as you pull back like that you smack yourself in the face with the bolt if you are not careful.

that's one of the beauties of the enfield #4s...you don't have to move you face when you flick the bolt handle up with your finger

 

[Zak Smith]

The same can be done by maintaining the firing grip with the strong hand-- that was my point.

 

[Slamfire]

The same can be done by maintaining the firing grip with the strong hand-- that was my point.

Sorry Zak if I missed it.

A couple of years ago Massad Ayoob had an article in American Handgunner in which he presented evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was left eye dominant and shot from the left shoulder. If so, given a window ledge as a rest, keeping his left hand on the trigger and his right hand on the bolt handle, he could have really cranked that Carcano of his. I have not tried this, but Massad clained that friends of his had, and they were well able to shoot all three shots within the historical timeperiod, in a recreation of the event.

Charles Whitman successfully engaged targets out to 400 yards while under constant ground fire and Lee Harvey Oswald was able to place three bullets on a moving target in 8.3 seconds. Where did both of these men learn to shoot?

The Marine Corps!!! Hooah!!

(That may have been quite tasteless, sorry…)

 

[SaMx]

off topic but why don't I have an icon for quoting too?

just copy and paste the text, highlight it, and click the little button on the far right of the row of buttons at the top of the reply box.

 

[TOU]

Slamfire1 & Gorgoroth

I'm with you....When I go gopher/varmint hunting with my 22lr, where they are thick....I have used this technique for decades. It is such a target rich envirement and so fast and furious that nothing else is effective. With in one day of being in such situations, this will be quite natural.

Cheers,


TOU

 

[rocinante]

Thanks for the informative answers. I do not have a bolt rifle so I do not know. So what have I learned?

A lefty might like a standard configured rifle better if he is shooting bench or supported. He would not have to move his hand off the trigger like a rightie would. Either case not that big of a deal since either can maintain his sight picture but the edge might go to the leftie.

Shooting standing the leftie is handicapped because he would have to move the hand supporting the weapon which would definitely accept the sight picture or reach over or under with the left to operate the bolt.

I have concluded I need a left handed rifle for hunting if I have any hope of getting more than one shot. **** like this easily helps explain why lefties have a shorter life expectancy