Border Check point question.

[McKnife]

You do not have probable cause to search my premises. And if i am asked to exit my vehicle. the windows would have been rolled up doors locked and keys in my hands.

That's how I handled it. Walked out, closed door, locked it and keys in pocket.

PS- Car was a rental, probably why they suspected drugs... popular to rent cars for transport.

I still think they guy is a turd, although I support what he did.

 

[McKnife]

So your rights no longer apply if it inconveniences someone else? Although he lacked a bit of tact, he was well within his rights to not answer the questions.

And yeah, I agree, the way he was doing it was not tactful, however, that doesn't mean I don't respect his rights, and his will to maintain them..

Agreed.

 

[scrat]

If you have the time a good video to watch is this right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&NR=1

 

[Pro-Gun Teacher]

While the dogs were on my car, I would have been asking for badge numbers, names and names of supervisors, and informing the BP that they are going to be paying for the cost of having the car repainted, or refinished. The government has the right to search, but not the right to destroy. Police seem to forget that they serve the people, and the badge that they carry is not a license to do what ever they want. With power comes responsibility, some of these young punk cops forget that.

 

[ilbob]

We need a LOT more people to resist the urge to be nice about these kind of things. If the people doing these unconstitutional stops get the idea the rest of us don't like it, that will filter up the chain.

I don't see there is any constitutional authority whatsoever for any government flunky to stop everyone at any checkpoint, be it BP, drugs, or drunk driving. If they have a reasonable suspicion about a particular individual, that is something else. At the actual border, no problem. An escaped criminal in the area, OK. Stopping 10,000 cars on the chance that one of them might have a driver who is willing to admit he is an illegal - not a chance.

 

[McKnife]

While the dogs were on my car, I would have been asking for badge numbers, names and names of supervisors, and informing the BP that they are going to be paying for the cost of having the car repainted, or refinished. The government has the right to search, but not the right to destroy. Police seem to forget that they serve the people, and the badge that they carry is not a license to do what ever they want. With power comes responsibility, some of these young punk cops forget that.

True. I had names/numbers of both the main officers... and the scratches were buffed out at the car wash before I returned it at the airport. It was very dirty from the west Texas sand and I'm a nice guy.

 

[scrat]

Thats why i posted another video on my previous post. if you do not know your rights when being pulled over then i recomend to everyone they watch this video. some parts may be a little corny. however its you duty to know your rights as well as what officers can and can not do.

 

[Destructo6]

and informing the BP that they are going to be paying for the cost of having the car repainted, or refinished.

They'll pay for if it's damaged. Just ask.

Oh, and as to the original poster's question: none of the agents seem to care if you are carrying concealed. If you're asked to park and exit your vehicle, it would probably be wise to inform one of them.

Stopping 10,000 cars on the chance that one of them might have a driver who is willing to admit he is an illegal - not a chance.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i look very latino 0to some round eyes i'm japanese and irish (black irish) i was working a big construction job in the mid 80's where there were a great number of illeagals working on a huge roof. (1/2 mile by 250 yards) ins showed up in 2 green vans on one side of the building and 60 folks evaporated off the roof. when ins got up there i was all alone with 5 running compressors and nail guns and air hoses everywhere. he came up and asked for my green card in a fairly nasty tone and i told him to show me his first in a way nthat apparently convinced him i was a citizen. i think it was how i pronounced a word thats starts with em and rhymes with trucker. 'interestingly we were working at a "secure" installation. i still don't know where all the guys hid but thet found no one

 

[macadore]

So your rights no longer apply if it inconveniences someone else? Although he lacked a bit of tact, he was well within his rights to not answer the questions.

What amendment guarantees the right of rude inconsiderate people to force the rest of us to endure their tantrums?

It is a part of the officer's job that he be treated with a lack of respect from some individuals. It is his duty to respond in a reasonable, tactful manner.

According to whom? It is the responsibility of every adult to act like an adult. Forcing everyone else to endure your tantrums while you force an unnecessary confrontation is childish. None of us have a right to be unnecessarily rude to anyone.

The guy is under no legal obligation to be nice to the border patrol agent.

I repeat, adults are obligated to act like adults. Unruly children should have their bottoms spanked. Of course, we do not do that anymore. It’s child abuse. Consequently, many children never grow up and we have spoiled brats in adult bodies’ who demand that the rest of us endure their tantrums.

His parents failed to raise him right and now he expects the rest of us to accommodate him. It’s his right and you apparently agree with him.

 

[Keaner]

So your rights no longer apply if it inconveniences someone else? Although he lacked a bit of tact, he was well within his rights to not answer the questions.

What amendment guarantees the right of rude inconsiderate people to force the rest of us to endure their tantrums?

The first one.

It is a part of the officer's job that he be treated with a lack of respect from some individuals. It is his duty to respond in a reasonable, tactful manner.

According to whom? It is the responsibility of every adult to act like an adult. Forcing everyone else to endure your tantrums while you force an unnecessary confrontation is childish. None of us have a right to be unnecessarily rude to anyone.

I'm pretty sure that 'putting up with arrogant A-holes' is right there next to 'serve and protect' in the job description. Morally, we do not have the right to be rude, legally, we are able to be as rude as we want. Thats kind of why freedom actually works.

The guy is under no legal obligation to be nice to the border patrol agent.

I repeat, adults are obligated to act like adults. Unruly children should have their bottoms spanked. Of course, we do not do that anymore. It’s child abuse. Consequently, many children never grow up and we have spoiled brats in adult bodies’ who demand that the rest of us endure their tantrums.

Again, there is absolutely no legal obligation to be polite at all. "Acting as adults" as you put it is in no way a legal obligation. Find me one amendment that says, "Be nice to police officers", and I'll concede. Being spoiled is not against the law!

His parents failed to raise him right and now he expects the rest of us to accommodate him. It’s his right and you apparently agree with him.

I agree with him in the point that we should not bow down to people who want to subject us to the whole "papers comrade" experience. If I wanted that, I'd move to communist China. As for being rude, I think it was uncalled for, but I will fight to the death for his right to be rude.

 

[scrat]

Quote:
It is a part of the officer's job that he be treated with a lack of respect from some individuals. It is his duty to respond in a reasonable, tactful manner.

According to whom? It is the responsibility of every adult to act like an adult. Forcing everyone else to endure your tantrums while you force an unnecessary confrontation is childish. None of us have a right to be unnecessarily rude to anyone.

Though i may not always agree with the phrase that its part of an officers job that he be treated with a lack of respect. I do not respect the part that officers use their lack of knowledge of the law to incriminate an individuals rights. No officer who works the streets can say they do not do this. Almost every officer who pulls someone over always starts out the conversation with "do you know why i pulled you over" self incrimination. Then the officers if need be ask you to step out of your car and then ask to search your car. With intimidation and peer pressure as adults we give in. This has to stop. I would respect officers more if they would stop trying to incriminate an individuals rights. I love the phrase you hear all the time "if you just work with us it will be so much easier". Maybe easier for a prosecution. Videos like this like it or not need to be seen. Both videos i posted. If you have the time again id recomend watching the other video. Then the things to remember You have rights. Our forefathers gave us those rights. Its our duty to know those rights protect them and use them.

You may not search my vehicle. You may not enter my home. Why did you pull me over. I do not consent to a search. Are you arresting me, am i being detained am i free to go.

 

[Keaner]

Though i may not always agree with the phrase that its part of an officers job that he be treated with a lack of respect.

Occupational hazard then. The officer knew he was at risk to be treated poorly when he signed up for the job, and he is supposed to act professionally in response.

An officer complaining that some of the people being mean to him, is the same as him complaining that he works with criminals, or that someone occasionally points a gun at him. He knew it was a distinct possibility when he signed up.

EVEN if he didn't, he could always find another job if he doesn't like the conditions of his employment.

 

[scrat]

hahahahahaha

or someone in the marines complaining that the enemy has guns.

 

[scrat]

hahahahah so your watching it. keep going there is a lot to see and learn. let me know what you think

 

[Treo]

I've seen it several times it's cheesy as hell but totally relevant.

It's really simple folks, no need to be rude just firm.

Think of it as a flow chart

Officer are you detaining me or am I free to go?

Free to go:

Thank you have a nice day (as you leave)

Detained :

I do not wish to make any statement W/ out my attorney present & I do not consent to any searches.

( repeat as necessary)

Do you mind if we search your vehicle ?

Officer I do not consent to any searches & I wish to make no further statment w/out my attorney present.

(repeat as necessary)

Not rude, firm

 

[Sam]

Road miles do not matter.
It is straight line distance.

Fine make it 45 and 87 miles, still no where in close proximity to a border. Just a shakedown operation for drugs and money.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Let's clear up a few things.

And if i am asked to exit my vehicle. the windows would have been rolled up doors locked and keys in my hands. Thats my right as an american

Not exactly. If a LEO has probale cause to pull you over then he can based on circumstances frisk your car. In Texas if you're pulled over on a Traffic Violation you are under arrest. Do you know the definition of an arrest? Check your Supreme Court Rullings on this.

Almost every officer who pulls someone over always starts out the conversation with "do you know why i pulled you over" self incrimination. Then the officers if need be ask you to step out of your car and then ask to search your car.

A LEO can ask you nearly anthing he wants to. Your answer is up to you. I've just walked up to people and started talking to them. It's not a violation of your rights for me to ask you if it looks like it's going to rain or if you just beat your wife. You have the right to remain silent but I can still ask you questions. Most of the time if you tell me that you just committed a crime that gives me Probable Cause to detain you and check farther. Most of the time we'd just like to see how far up your butt your head is.

You may not search my vehicle.

Yeah, sometimes we can. Depends on the circumatances.

Its our duty to know those rights protect them and use them.

Yes, but know your Rights. Don't go by what you see on TV or what Joe at the Bar said

There are times when I could, given reasonable suspicion or probable cause, frisk you, your car and even your house. If you're not familiar with when and under what circumstances then you don't really know your Rights.


Being a LEO can at times be a real bitch. I've buried 5 of my friends who were killed just for doing their jobs. I got to hold plenty of dead babies and had to tell a lot of people that their Father, Mother, Son or Daughter weren't ever coming home again. I've had a lot of brain dead people tell me that they knew their Rights when in fact they didn't know crap. I've even had a guy declare Sanctuary in a Church and tell me that I couldn't arrest him because he was on Holy ground. I bet, giving good odds, that most people have no clue what their Rights are or when to invoke them. And just so ya'll know, they don't pay me extra to be nice to an ***hole, but I try to be as nice as I can based on how you respond.

 

[scrat]

Quote:
And if i am asked to exit my vehicle. the windows would have been rolled up doors locked and keys in my hands. Thats my right as an american

Not exactly. If a LEO has probale cause to pull you over then he can based on circumstances frisk your car. In Texas if you're pulled over on a Traffic Violation you are under arrest. Do you know the definition of an arrest? Check your Supreme Court Rullings on this.

And this i contest first of all i dont live in texas. However if i am pulled over for not putting on my blinker. The officer has the right to pull me over. IF the officer sees something in the car or witnesses odd behavior trying to hide something that could give the officer probable cause. Me telling the officer that i do not consent to a search without probable cause. Does not give the officer the probable cause to search my property. When the officer sees something illegal or maybe illegal then the officer can search a vechicle. If the officer indeed finds an illegal substance. This would hold up in court as the judge may find the officer had sufficiant cause to check the vehicle. The plain view rule. If the officer does not have sufficient evidence and searches the car without owners permission the judge can throw out the case. The defendents attorney can also file a motion to supress or throw out.






4th amendment rights
"the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

I believe you would be violating my rights trying to search my vehicle during a routine traffic stop. This is why people like me will not only challenge your authority but do what ever we can to stop it. Even if it means you losing your job and career. My rights will not be violated.

 

[scrat]

well another way to find out. i guess i can just email

Poteet Police Department

Chief of Police
Henry Dominguez


Im sure i will get the correct answer we need to this question.

 

[Mike Franklin]

These are not based on Texas Law they are based on Federal Case Law. You need to slowly read what I posted.

Me telling the officer that i do not consent to a search without probable cause. Does not give the officer the probable cause to search my property.

No one said that. You do not know your Rights.

4th amendment rights
"the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

The Courts have definded what's reasonable and what's unreasonable. I repeat, you do not know your Rights.

Ask Henry all about Terry vs Ohio.

 

[skinewmexico]

We need a LOT more people to resist the urge to be nice about these kind of things. If the people doing these unconstitutional stops get the idea the rest of us don't like it, that will filter up the chain.

That's hilarious. A guy from IL telling us what to do about BP stops, when they have to have a FOID. Clean your own house first, buddy.

It is legal to carry in your car if you are “traveling”. Traveling normally means crossing county lines. I have heard that some of the police in Houston choose to ignore that definition, but have no first hand experience with that.

macadore - Join the TSRA, so you know what is going on in your own state. The legislature fixed that law during the last session.

Then asked my citizenship. I am very, very white.

bobbarker - Large groups of Castillian Spanish moved to Mexico a few hundred years ago, and they are very, very white, and sometimes blond.

 

[Treo]

Mike Franklin

There are times when I could, given reasonable suspicion or probable cause, frisk you, your car and even your house. If you're not familiar with when and under what circumstances then you don't really know your Rights

You're absolutely right, that's why I have a lawyer he knows my rights. If you show up at my house W/ warrant I'm still going to articulate that you are searching the premisis W/ out my consent. Then I'm going to shut up and wait until I can contact my lawyer.

I have nothing to gain by complying to a search & I have nothing to gain by speaking to a cop.

I'm not going to argue Constitutional Law W/ you on the side of the road & I'm not going to resist if you search my vehicle after I refused consent.

I'm going to stand there W/ my mouth shut until I can talk to my lawyer. If you screwed up and violated my rights I'm going to own you. if you didn't I haven't done a single thing to hurt my cause.

Of course all of the above presumes I'm innocent of any wrong doing.

Anybody want to make book on how fast this thread gets locked?

 

[Nate C.]

I am a firm believer in the 'Don't Tread on Me' approach to civil liberties, but I am really disappointed in some of the posts I am seeing here. Not because I disagree (everyone is entitled to their opinion), but because of the overall vitriolic tone towards the men and women performing border enforcement. (For the record, God bless them and their efforts. They don't get paid enough for the crap they have to put up with.)

All the barstool lawyers herein should read up on the distinction between border checkpoints versus regular domestic law enforcement procedure. There are some differences in normal rules of probable cause when applied to border searches.

The border does not have to be at the actual geographical marker. It can be miles away.

The poor female BPA in that video, rather than letting the jerk intimidate her, should have pulled the guy into secondary, taken his car apart and then handed him a screwdriver to reassemble it.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Treo, you can't afford to not know your Rights. It would be a shame if your Lawyer told you to take a plea bargain because you broke the law while thinking you were right.

Just stand there with your mouth shut and let the Officers do their job. 99% of'm know what they're doing.

BTW, the State will have a Lawyer at trial too. You won't even get to talk to the Officer.