Border standoff rattles National Guard troops

[Biker]

Well Lance, the Pubs are right there with the Dems. Ain't no good guys here...
Nowadays, I have very low expectations from both parties and they always seem to live down to them.

Biker

 

[Caimlas]

If you, as a National Guardsman, having sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States, are given the order to withdrawl/retreat from your own national border, do you see that as an abreviation of your own sworn duties?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[Biker]

Caimlas...

That post was out of line. Soldiers follow orders. They don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which orders are followed short of knowingly greasing non-combatants.
A soldier would know this.
I think that you owe an apology or three...

Biker

 

[longeyes]

So, to the liberals, our troops having to run away from armed gangs at the border isn't a problem. Crime from illegal immigrants is also not a problem. The loss of 'working class' jobs to illegals is also not a problem.

What IS a problem, is anytime you or the troops have the ability to defend yourself (and not be dependent on THEM). You don't have to wet your pants while you dial 911 ? That's a big f***ing problem and they will relentlessly push congress to make sure this problem is corrected.

A problem to a liberal is any situation where you have to make a moral judgment of any kind, especially if it entails personal inconvenience, danger, or sexual sublimation.

The problem at the border goes back to the will of our Sole Decider.

 

[ilbob]

If you, as a National Guardsman, having sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States, are given the order to withdrawl/retreat from your own national border, do you see that as an abreviation of your own sworn duties?

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The oath does not actually use the word "uphold". It does say you agree to obey orders. This is a political issue and will need to be resolved in that arena.

 

[plexreticle]

You guys know this story is fiction right?

 

[Devonai]

So the news networks have it wrong? Are you part of your S2 shop or is this information something that's coming down your chain of command?

 

[ZeSpectre]

maybe we need to approach congress and tell them it's "for the children".

 

[HiroProX]

Well then, maybe they better bloody well start treating it like the Sunni Triangle.

At least shooting back would be an improvement.

 

[plexreticle]

So the news networks have it wrong? Are you part of your S2 shop or is this information something that's coming down your chain of command?

What news agency? Are you S2? If you are then Hi there! We know each other.


This story is fiction.

 

[Old Fuff]

plexreticle:

This story is fiction.

Indeed...??

Gunmen Force Troops Off Border Watch

From Associated Press
January 05, 2007 7:34 AM EST

TUCSON, Ariz. - National Guard troops at an observation post near the Mexico border were forced to flee a group of armed people, who later ran into Mexico, authorities said.

The troops, who are not allowed to apprehend illegal border crossers, withdrew safely and no one was injured, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban.

U.S. Border Patrol officials are investigating the 11 p.m. Wednesday incident and trying to determine who the armed people were and why they approached the post near Sasabe, in the desert corridor between Nogales and Lukeville. Balaban said the troops didn't know how many people were involved because it was so dark.

That area has been the busiest in the Tucson Sector for marijuana seizures. Agents have seized 124,000 pounds of marijuana there since Oct. 1, said Rob Daniels, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson Sector.

"We don't know if this was a matter of somebody coming up accidentally on the individuals, coming up intentionally on the individuals, or some sort of a diversion," Daniels said.

With more Border Patrol agents and National Guard troops patrolling the Arizona section of the U.S.-Mexico border, it has become more difficult to smuggle drugs and people across and "that heightened frustration may have been connected to what took place last night," Daniels said.

Balaban said officials would investigate and then determine whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.

Since arriving in mid-June, the Guard has assisted the Border Patrol by manning control rooms, repairing roads, fences and vehicles, and spotting and reporting illegal border crossings to the Border Patrol. President Bush said last spring he would have up to 6,000 National Guard troops deployed to assist the Border Patrol.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20070105/459ddb50_3421_1334520070105109496609

Note highlighted sources.

Don't know who you are, but they're good enough for me. Incidentally, I live in Cochise County, Arizona.

 

[slzy]

the nashville tennesean,said the soldiers retreated with weapons at the "low ready" [which will make even the most contemptous foe yield grudging respect] that these members of the 278th Armored C av. actually received decorations for their retreat.

 

[bluecowdawg]

Dont yall know by now that it is against the law for federal law enforcement and now I guess the military too, to shoot at any illegall alien ,drug dealer/runner that is criss-crossing our border. ugh....gosh

 

[slzy]

Col. Jeff Holmes of the 278th said that the TNG "displaced" to a more "defendable " position while continuing their mission in this "fiction".

 

[wingman]

This story is fiction.

Not only is it true but the troops were honored for their "withdrawal",
holy crap Batman the French have arrived./////

In truth I do not blame the troops they were ordered to not engage
or that is my understanding.

 

[plexreticle]

I talk to the down range soldiers daily. This didn't happen.

The names used in the story are not soldiers in the Guard. I looked it up they're not on any database I have access to. Including the one that list every soldier in the TXARNG.

This is a fake story picked up by AP or written as if it was picked up by AP. Get me a name of the writer and I'll call them on the phone. Get me an actual soldiers name and I'll personally talk to them. Have any of you considered doing this?

I have no other reason to refute this other than it isn't true.

Funny how people believe the press when they want too and think it's BS when they don't.

 

[slzy]

plexret,google col.jeff holmes and a story from the nashville tennessean comes up first. this story involves the tennessee national guard not texas.

 

[Devonai]

It should be as easy as logging onto AKO. If I can find buddies of mine from basic on there, we should be able to confirm the names of TNARNG soldiers. Let me see if I can dig up my password...

 

[slzy]

i googled "tn national guard retreats" and 499,000 hits came up. the fox article from feb 1 came up first,to include the closed ceremony where the guardsmen will be "honored". Combat Avoidance Badge i guessed,some one else opines an Arcom.either way,glad Davy Crockett did'nt have to see it.

 

[Old Fuff]

plexreticle:

Frankly, I think that it’s your creditability that’s getting a bit thin. I have no idea where you are, but in Arizona this incident has been all over the media. Note that the account below involves the Chairman of an Arizona Legislature Committee, The Commander of the Arizona National Guard, and the Governor of Arizona.

Is it your contention that none of the officials listed above wouldn’t have told the media that the reports surrounding this incident were “fiction” if this was the case, nor that the widely distributed news accounts I posted would not have been challenged by the highest authorities within the Arizona Government, National Guard, or Border Patrol?

PHOENIX, Jan. 28, 2007
By JACQUES BILLEAUD Associated Press Writer

(AP) Advocates for tougher immigration enforcement plan to confront the commander of the Arizona National Guard about why troops backed off recently as gunmen approached their post near the Mexican border.

Maj. Gen. David Rataczak is to testify Monday before the state Legislature's homeland security committee in a hearing about the Jan. 3 encounter at an observation post.

While National Guard officials and supporters say the troops did as they were supposed to, critics question the point of having the troops on the border if they can't confront such dangers.

The encounter has broader border security implications because armed people will know the National Guard will retreat, said state Rep. Warde Nichols, the committee's chairman.

"From every account I can get, it appears they were testing our resolve and what our men at the border would do," said Nichols, a Republican.

Rep. Steve Gallardo, a Democrat on the committee, said he believed immigration hard-liners would use Rataczak's appearance to push their agenda.

"They are going to try and embarrass him. They are going to fail," Gallardo said.

Four National Guard soldiers from Tennessee were at a lookout post at the border when they were approached by six to eight gunmen wearing bulletproof vests. One of the gunmen came within 35 feet of the observation site, according to investigators' summaries.

The soldiers contacted Border Patrol agents and pulled back, investigators concluded. The Border Patrol tracked the armed men back to the border but could not locate them. No shots were fired.

Democratic Gov. Janet Napolitano, National Guard officials and some state lawmakers defended the decision to call in the Border Patrol, saying the troops are not supposed to perform law enforcement duties. The governor's office has said the rules allow Guard members to use force when they believe they face an imminent threat and all other means are exhausted.

"I don't think that it's up to the committee to negotiate the rules of engagement," Napolitano said. "Those rules of engagement were negotiated with the National Guard at the federal level."

The troops were among the 6,400 National Guard members sent to the four southern border states to support immigration agents, and leave the agents with more time to catch illegal immigrants.

The support duties include monitoring border points, assisting with cargo inspection and operate surveillance cameras.

"We don't apprehend," said Maj. Paul Aguirre, a spokesman for the Arizona National Guard. "We don't detain. We don't transport."

Aguirre objected to characterizations of the withdrawal as a retreat, saying the soldiers did not run from their post and were not overrun.

The troops monitored the situation, never lost contact with the gunmen and moved to another site to avoid an engagement, Aguirre said.

 

[MD_Willington]

You call the DEA if they are drug dealers. We can't have the soldiers stealing the DEA's thunder now, or stepping into someone elses kingdom...

Every government agency I've dealt with in the USA is its own little kingdom, they don't share any info and don't like to play nice with others.. YMMV

 

[slzy]

maybe the easiest way to straighten up the illegal alien problem would be to declare war on mexico. the illegal aliens would now be enemy aliens,their employers would be collabarators. and the confusion over law enforcement and the national guard would be cleared up.

 

[Harve Curry]

OLD FUFF + a million

 

[.45FMJoe]

Gee, no response back. Good post, Fuff.

 

[slzy]

thought of another good reason to declare war on mexico: it would bring back the rightful,lawful power to congress to declare war,ending the upsurption by the executive branch.