Boston: GPS on handguns

[Brat7748]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1560263/posts

Boston City Councilor Rob Consalvo recently announced a plan to install GPS tracking devices on all new handguns in response to the city's increasing murder rate. Unfortunately, Councilor Consalvo has failed to make the connection between the high concentration of MS-13 gang members and the increasing murder rate.

Councilor Consalvo also fails to explain how a tracking device will detect, prevent, or solve any crime. Does Councilor Consalvo really believe that a murderer, using a handgun with a GPS tracking device, will keep the handgun in his posession after committing a crime? If the gun was stolen from a law-abiding citizen, would that citizen be held responsible for the crime? Doesn't the tracking device create a gun registry system?

Considering the fact that the MS-13 gang has a high concentration in Boston and the East Coast, it seems logical that cracking down on illegal immigration would be a better way to protect law-abiding citizens. One might assume that the men pictured to the right would be denied entry into this country if they attempted to get here through legal channels. However, considering the fact that a U.S. Border Patrol agent was brought up on federal charges for illegally purchasing a pistol for a Mexican national who intended to smuggle the weapon into Mexico, brings the hiring practices and leadership ability of the U.S. Border Patrol into question.

Meanwhile, the City of Seattle has plans to hire a "Crime Gun Program Coordinator". This newly created position within the Seattle Police Department will be paid for by taxpayers to "develop, maintain and coordinate a centralized and regionally comprehensive crime gun database and integrate the data with relevant information" from the State Department of Licensing, Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and other law enforcement agencies. In other words, there will be one more anti-gun bigot shuffling papers behind a desk instead of one more police officer on the street. Does the City of Seattle really believe gang members like the ones pictured in the links below are the least bit concerned about the City's listmaking?

Perhaps instead of devising complicated schemes to spy on private, law-abiding citizens, City officials and police departments should enhance their own internal recordkeeping. Certainly the Long Beach Police Department, which is missing more than a fourth of its shotguns and an unknown number of revolvers, could use a little improvement in this area.

Clearly, there is a rash of gross incompetence occurring in many areas of government and at all levels. Not only are many government officials failing to protect us by refusing to acknowledge the link between illegal immigration and violent crime, but they are also attempting to disarm us at the same time. These politically-correct cowards pander to violent criminals by refusing to stand up for this country and enforce our laws. They would rather put our lives in jeopardy as well as the future sovereignty of this country than stand up for what's right. It's time to throw the bums out and put a stop to these policies. It's a matter of self defense.

 

[fletcher]

From an engineering/technology standpoint, it's impractical, if not impossible, to have a cost-efficient, practical GPS tracking system on a firearm.

 

[shermacman]

There is going to be a really long line of MS-13 criminal aliens eagerly waiting to purchase those GPS chips for their stolen hand guns!

 

[Live Free Or Die]

From an engineering/technology standpoint, it's impractical, if not impossible, to have a cost-efficient, practical GPS tracking system on a firearm.

And from a law-enforcement point of view, it's simply absurd. Do police or politicians realize a battery is required to power the GPS processor? Do they expect criminals (or even non-criminals) to dutifully replace the battery at the same time they replace their smoke detector batteries each year?

I guess it's only a matter of time before a politician/technologist figures out how to harness some energy from a firearm discharge to recharge the battery and broadcast the firearm's location each time it's fired. However, I doubt the GPS circuitry would survive 15 seconds in a microwave.

 

[engineer151515]

Its stories like this that convince me there are few engineers in politics.

 

[BostonGeorge]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1560263/posts

Unfortunately, Councilor Consalvo has failed to make the connection between the high concentration of MS-13 gang members and the increasing murder rate.

Considering the fact that the MS-13 gang has a high concentration in Boston and the East Coast, it seems logical that cracking down on illegal immigration would be a better way to protect law-abiding citizens.

While I'm sure we can all agree Counsilor Consalvo is misguided at best, these statements are beyond ridiculous.

The number of MS-13 in the Boston Metro area is fairly miniscule, and the only neighborhood within the city where they have any noticable presence probably had one of the lowest murder rates in the city this past year.

 

[WillBrayJr]

Next thing you know they will want to put a GPS unit in anything that can be used as a weapon. There goes 99% of anything product. When that doesn't work then they'll want to put a GPS unit in our brain.

 

[Deavis]

From an engineering/technology standpoint, it's impractical, if not impossible, to have a cost-efficient, practical GPS tracking system on a firearm.

What? Are you kidding? Integrating a low-chip count GPS solution into a firearm, even a handgun, would not be much of an engineering challenge. All the necessary electronic components could easily fit, especially on a rifle because you only need a transmitter, not a transceiver or display for this to work.

The device could easily be minaturized using SMT devices, high desity interconnects and a series of small PCBs (All off shelf and easy to work with) to take up about as much space as a Streamlight M3. The antenna could then be routed through the frame to give it the appropriate length. From an engineering stand point, this is a simple task compared to producing a modern cell phone with all its bells and whistles.

 

[Can'thavenuthingood]

More feel good legislation/ordinance again. Just another way to de-commision firearms.

Easy vote getter.

Vick

 

[StopTheGrays]

From an engineering/technology standpoint, it's impractical, if not impossible, to have a cost-efficient, practical GPS tracking system on a firearm.

And we swerve into the truth, by making firearms to expensive to buy for the common pleb.

 

[engineer151515]

What? Are you kidding? Integrating a low-chip count GPS solution into a firearm, even a handgun, would not be much of an engineering challenge. ....

I submit.......

Miniaturized circuitry is not the engineering difficulty.

What's the range of your GPS transmission? Cell phones have enough trouble reaching the local tower. And remember that the handheld GPS units for marking position are receivers. Not transmitters. Take a look at a satellite cellphone setup and you have a briefcase sized unit, with dished antenna.

 

[daiadvisor]

Sounds like another "ballistic fingerprint" type fiasco waiting to happen. Again, they are trying to cure the symptom, and not the problem.

 

[azredhawk44]

As a manufacturer, I would refuse to sell to Boston. I would not produce a product that fits their description and would put their PD on a "ban" list.

I'd like to see Glock, Sig, HK, Ruger, Smith, Beretta, Kahr, Springfield, Colt and Kimber all sign on to such an agreement. Any other smaller manufacturer could obviously also sign on too.

The remaining scabs would be too unreliable or too small to produce for CA, Boston, NY, DC, Hawaii, Chicago and the other kook centrals!

It leaves:
HiPoint
KelTec
Les Baer
Wilson
ParaOrdnance
AutoOrdnance
STI

Mostly either high $ 1911 custom makers, or low end stuff that police will not want as a duty weapon.

 

[BostonGeorge]

As a manufacturer, I would refuse to sell to Boston. I would not produce a product that fits their description and would put their PD on a "ban" list.

I'd like to see Glock, Sig, HK, Ruger, Smith, Beretta, Kahr, Springfield, Colt and Kimber all sign on to such an agreement. Any other smaller manufacturer could obviously also sign on too.

The remaining scabs would be too unreliable or too small to produce for CA, Boston, NY, DC, Hawaii, Chicago and the other kook centrals!

I agree, unfortunatly said manufacturers have proven time and time again that they are unconcerned with RKBA.

 

[Erinyes]

And it would still have to be a transciever assembly. The device would have to recieve GPS coordinates from the satelite system and then transmit them to a monitoring station. That station would have to be manned 24/7. Add in the engineers needed to maintain the monitoring station, the short range of a tranciever small enough to fit in a pistol, and the whole thing just becomes unfeasible. Even if it were technologically possible, you're adding manpower that would cost millions of dollars a year.

 

[Erinyes]

I agree, unfortunatly said manufacturers have proven time and time again that they are unconcerned with RKBA.

It's all about profit. While they definately wouldn't boycott Boston Police, the development costs of such a GPS system would have to fall on those manufacturers. They would have to decide if the revenues generated from sales in Boston are greater than the amount they'd have to dump into R&D. And for some reason, I doubt Boston sales of firearms are really something to write home about...

 

[One of Many]

What? Are you kidding? Integrating a low-chip count GPS solution into a firearm, even a handgun, would not be much of an engineering challenge. All the necessary electronic components could easily fit, especially on a rifle because you only need a transmitter, not a transceiver or display for this to work.

The device could easily be minaturized using SMT devices, high desity interconnects and a series of small PCBs (All off shelf and easy to work with) to take up about as much space as a Streamlight M3. The antenna could then be routed through the frame to give it the appropriate length. From an engineering stand point, this is a simple task compared to producing a modern cell phone with all its bells and whistles.

Are you an electronics engineer? I am, and I say that you are making a bogus statement. GPS systems are receivers; they receive signals from satellites in orbit, and that reguires that antennas be able to receive a strong enough signal (actually several signals since the system requires multiple satellites to work). Have you ever placed a GPS receiver in an enclosed metal box, and observed that the system can not track the location as the box is moved? Have you ever heard of a Faraday Cage? What about underground usage? Have you ever experienced GPS dropout when you drive into an underground parking garage (or even just park under a bridge)?

It would be practically (emphasis on practical) impossible to make a GPS system that would function reliably in a firearm. Add to that the requirement to have a transmitter in the firearm to relay the position to some monitoring station. Unless the monitoring station is very close, the power requirements for the transmitter would be very high, and battery depletion would be rapid (consider how quickly your cell phone battery dies when you are more than 5 miles from a cell tower). The cost for such a system would be astronomical, considering the number of monitoring antenna sites that would be required.

Another poster has already mentioned the problem with supplying power to such an in firearm GPS relay system; criminals will not replace discharged batteries. Photovoltaics and storage capacitors would be too cumbersome to be workable (and would be defeated by keeping the gun in darkness), and we can't have nuclear power in hand held units. Cold Fusion does not exist yet, so just how do you expect to make this device work for more than 24 hours?

 

[WillBrayJr]

I don't think Springfield Armory would sign anything. The @$$ kissers Colt and Ruger probably will though.

 

[progunner1957]

I agree, unfortunatly said manufacturers have proven time and time again that they are unconcerned with RKBA.

Yup - the gun makers have a "corporate mindset" (that is, profit over principles; good, old-fashioned GREED).

No doubt some greedy ones at the top of the heap at "Brand X Guns" would drop to their knees, break the boycott and service the boycotted cities and their police departments. Selling themselves to the highest bidder.

It seems that the gun maker's outlook is "When guns are outlawed - we'll sell them to 'The Government.' " They know this is where the true money lies, and that seems to be their priority.

 

[fletcher]

What? Are you kidding? Integrating a low-chip count GPS solution into a firearm, even a handgun, would not be much of an engineering challenge. All the necessary electronic components could easily fit, especially on a rifle because you only need a transmitter, not a transceiver or display for this to work.

No, I wasn't kidding. Integrating a GPS device into a firearm, with a transmitter powerful enough to reach towers to transfer the data to whoever from out in the middle of nowhere, batteries to power said transmitter for a reasonable amount of time, etc. would add considerable size and weight to a firearm.

Think about putting that GPS stuff on a pocket-gun like a Kel-Tec or NAA. It ain't happening.

 

[Lupinus]

What? Are you kidding? Integrating a low-chip count GPS solution into a firearm, even a handgun, would not be much of an engineering challenge. All the necessary electronic components could easily fit, especially on a rifle because you only need a transmitter, not a transceiver or display for this to work.

The device could easily be minaturized using SMT devices, high desity interconnects and a series of small PCBs (All off shelf and easy to work with) to take up about as much space as a Streamlight M3. The antenna could then be routed through the frame to give it the appropriate length. From an engineering stand point, this is a simple task compared to producing a modern cell phone with all its bells and whistles.

Please tell me you are kidding? Even if you made it as small as a cell phone (which for all the parts needed, batteries, etc would be an expensive difficult task) where the hell on a handgun, even a full sized handgun, are you going to stick something the size of a cell phone? Then where are you going to put the antenna? Then you have to figure out how to make it reliable. Throw your cell phone on the floor a few times see how well it works, then do that a few thousand times. Firing a gun puts off a good bit of shock that would tear up any electronics you put into it. We aren't talking a light or a laser, these things are simple. We are talking complex microchips that don't like being bashed around.

 

[Brat7748]

Ahhh you guys are all missing the real motive. It will be easy to tell who is packing a new GPS enabled handgun by the GPS antenna stuck to their head!

 

[Car Knocker]

As if the BG couldn't just remove the GPS unit.

 

[MD_Willington]

They must have interviewed the nerd who was finishing his "Robot", you know the "Giirrl Robot"...

GPS = nope

RFID = yep... but they can be fixed.

 

[Mad Chemist]

They're not content with violating the 2nd Amendment, now they want to violate the 4th as well. I have a few choice adjectives to describe these people but none of them are suitable for this board.