Boxes and accessories after buying a S&W revolver

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I have a habit of buying an older Smith and Wesson revolver, that does not have it's original box, manual, cleaning rod, screwdriver, brush and cotton swab. It is fun running these down and finding the correct tape for the time period the revolver was made. I have sold revolvers i have replaced these items for. When I have sold them, I have always told the buyer they were period correct replacement for the revolver and not the original shipped with it. My question is, would it be dishonest to not tell a buyer this. I have fellow collectors that will not tell a buyer. If I was buying an older revolver, I would want to know this. I have heard them say it doesn't matter as long as the accessories are correct and what would have shipped with it from the factory. A good collector knows what to look for to tell if they are correct for the gun but most would not. I consider it to be dishonest. A lot of times it adds a good bit to the value just to have the box and accessories, original to the gun or correct period replacements. Some of the accessories are quite costly in their own right and can be hard to find. I just would not feel right selling and not letting the buyer know. I know others that it doesn't bother at all. Now if I am showing one off, I don't feel obligated to tell but that is not letting someone take it home with them thinking it is something it is not. What do others think about the kind of situation?
 
I'd say there is certainly an implied dishonesty by omission.

I'm sure an individual NOT forthcoming in the lack of originality of the accessories does NOT forget to raise the price commensurate with the impression of being original.

Therein is found the basis for calling it dishonest.... The cost.

I too, like to track down factory and period accessories for firearms.

Todd.
 
Always let the buyer know, even if they don't care.
Me, I always like it when a seller tells me a little info about the gun, such as which museum it was displayed in, which estate they bought it from, the owner of it before me, etc.
It allows me to track down provenance of the firearm on my own and therefore find out more about it. The fact of whether the box is original, or replacement, is a huge indicator of where/how the gun was used. If the box is original, and the gun is in good condition, I'd assume it was hardly ever shot. If the box is replacement, and the gun is in good condition, I'd assume the gun was used but later ended up in the hands of a collector who went out of their way to get original box and papers.
So even if the buyer doesn't indicate to care, still worth telling it to them because maybe their kids will care where it came from, who knows.
 
Always let the buyer know, even if they don't care.
Me, I always like it when a seller tells me a little info about the gun, such as which museum it was displayed in, which estate they bought it from, the owner of it before me, etc.
It allows me to track down provenance of the firearm on my own and therefore find out more about it. The fact of whether the box is original, or replacement, is a huge indicator of where/how the gun was used. If the box is original, and the gun is in good condition, I'd assume it was hardly ever shot. If the box is replacement, and the gun is in good condition, I'd assume the gun was used but later ended up in the hands of a collector who went out of their way to get original box and papers.
So even if the buyer doesn't indicate to care, still worth telling it to them because maybe their kids will care where it came from, who knows.
I agree totally. I have always told a buyer about the box, manual and tools. I even let them know if grips or anything else is not original to the gun. It’s just the right thing, even if they are correct period replacements.
 
If someone advertises they have a gun for sale with the box and accessories I always assume that it’s original unless otherwise stated.
I think that I would be pretty perturbed if I bought a gun like that only to find out the stuff was not original but I paid an “original” price.
 
For the average accumulator of guns like myself, original box and accessories isn't usually a big deal. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for their inclusion.
That said I'm an accumulator not a high end collector. If a seller advertises the inclusion of box and accessories then I assume they mean original to the gun, not replacements.
Honesty is the best policy.
 
Most S&W boxes have the guns model, serial number and other info either written or printed on a tag but apparently these days you can easily make or but fake labels.
I hope all sellers I run into are like the OP and honest about the accessories
 
I didn’t know about the fake labels. I have been looking for a period correct box for my 30-1 and have come up empty. Maybe I will go that route. Same for my model 10-6. I don’t really care if they are right, I just like to look at stuff that’s complete and currently mine are incomplete. BUT I only have box and whatnot for a few of my guns. Long gun boxes are stuck in the attic and handgun boxes are under the bed. Only time they go into their boxes is when I move, and sadly I do that about every 3 years.
 
I looked at 2 *NIB* Colt Aces some years back. Thought I checked the boxes well too. For whatever reason, I selected this pistol. Found out later after all the paperwork was done that I had paid NIB $ for what was actually NI(a)B as the numbers did not match.

Went back to find if the boxes had been switched. Nope, the other pistol was correct to the other box. I still liked the pistol I had selected and so demanded a correction on the price paid and got it. I was NOT a happy camper at the time.

Every now and again, I think to list my box on Coltautos in case the correct owner is out there.

Todd.
 
I have a background in automotive restoration. 1960-1972 GMs mostly. A few high dollar cars came through here and there.

If you had a 69 L89 Chevelle and replaced a fender on it from a 69 Malibu and the deck lid from a 68 Deluxe 300 nobody would say a word about it and within that culture no one cared including the owner/buyer. If you placed a reproduction owners manual in the glove box or a replica spare tire and jack (which is as close to the spirit of the OPs question I can really get with this metaphor) it may come up as a point of interest but won’t affect the value of the vehicle in the end as long as it is nicely restored and correct.

They did care about matching numbers though, and build sheets, and window stickers, and the vaunted ProtectOPlate. To artificially make unmatching numbers match, all kinds of ethical and legal implications get involved. To not disclose the window sticker or ProtectOPlate were replicas/reproductions would be highly unethical.

Window stickers, ProtectOPlates, body codes, casting numbers and stamps, and VIN numbers are all “documents”. (or close approximations in the case if body tag numbers) Documents, that in this instance, establish “provenance” and thus, intrinsic value. They are not “common” items like fenders and trunk lids.

That is my background on this matter so....

Things included with guns like manuals and cleaning brushes and rod and that like in my mind are “common” items. If there are any “documents” WITH serial numbers pertaining to said gun or of course, the original box with correct serial number then these are items that should not be tampered with/disclosed as being original or not. All the other common items may add some further intrigue and make the gun seem more “complete”. If this significantly adds or detracts value then that should probably be disclosed.

There are of course exceptions to this rule but this really only involves very rare specimens. Such as if you have a 68 Ram Air II GTO in survivor condition with original paint. A little rust here and there and a rat eaten owners manual are valuable to preserve the survivorship status of said car. The same could be said of an original Registered Magnum. Original box and docs that as near as you or anybody can tell are original or the lack there of are things that can affect value to me in that instance.

Sometimes grips are serialized to a frame. Sometimes not. If they are not, does it really matter whether they are “original” or not. If they are period correct then they are original. Those grips were all in the same bin at one point and just happened to go revolver A instead of B. If the grips are serialized then we already know the answer.

It all seems to boil down to perceived value and the context of that value. The examples I made in the car culture for instance, do not directly compare to the gun culture apparently since non serialized documents seem to have more value in the gun world.
 
I have a habit of buying an older Smith and Wesson revolver, that does not have it's original box, manual, cleaning rod, screwdriver, brush and cotton swab. It is fun running these down and finding the correct tape for the time period the revolver was made. I have sold revolvers i have replaced these items for. When I have sold them, I have always told the buyer they were period correct replacement for the revolver and not the original shipped with it. My question is, would it be dishonest to not tell a buyer this. I have fellow collectors that will not tell a buyer. If I was buying an older revolver, I would want to know this. I have heard them say it doesn't matter as long as the accessories are correct and what would have shipped with it from the factory. A good collector knows what to look for to tell if they are correct for the gun but most would not. I consider it to be dishonest. A lot of times it adds a good bit to the value just to have the box and accessories, original to the gun or correct period replacements. Some of the accessories are quite costly in their own right and can be hard to find. I just would not feel right selling and not letting the buyer know. I know others that it doesn't bother at all. Now if I am showing one off, I don't feel obligated to tell but that is not letting someone take it home with them thinking it is something it is not. What do others think about the kind of situation?
Bought a Springfield.45 1911 frame, nice piece, but I found out that the owner buffed the bluing and changed the rear sight with a Novak one. Well to cut the story short am trying to restore it to its original
 
Most S&W boxes have the guns model, serial number and other info either written or printed on a tag but apparently these days you can easily make or but fake labels.
I hope all sellers I run into are like the OP and honest about the accessories
The printed label on an older S&W box is a dead giveaway. The boxes that have the model factory printed on one end of the box, had the serial number wrote on the bottom, with a grease pencil at the factory. No other markings to associate it with the gun.The stick on label came about later. Anyone can buy reproduction, stick on labels most anywhere. So if an older, 63, or so back, box has a label, with the serial number on it, I would be looking hard.
 
It all seems to boil down to perceived value and the context of that value. The examples I made in the car culture for instance, do not directly compare to the gun culture apparently since non serialized documents seem to have more value in the gun world.

One thing I've learned in my varied career of working retail is that it's ALL perceived value.
Vintage guitars: Obviously the original case and book add value, but even such things as the original hang tags and anything else that came with it add value to crazy people who spend six figures to buy a '59 Les Paul.
Vintage cameras, ditto, right down to original lens caps and lens wipes that may have come in the original box
Vintage Harley Davidsons: Bone stock to include the faded original paint.

I do often wonder where some people store all their old boxes, I've had five year old complete stereos come in with the original boxes.
 
I don't know. You might just say - period correct, and leave it at that. If the buyer cares and have a clue they would ask. If you call them original, I would assume that means the original ones shipped with the firearm.
 
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