BP cartridge loading .30-30??????

[kBob]

Was just reading another of the 1980's magazines from the found box and there was an article on reloading.

The author wrote of a 1904 article that spoke of a 100 grain lead bullet being used in a .30-30 case with no fillers and only 10 grains of BP and he did not mention granulation. This was supposed to be a good critter-gitter out to 100 yards.

While the concept is intreging to my inner lower case survivalist, the idea of all that air space around BP is a bit scary. No desire to blow up an old '94 or anything but I fear being skinned along with that cat for my curiosity.

Any thoughts?

-kBob

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well the .30-30 chamber pressure for handloads with one of my favorite powders shows a max of around 33,700 CUP....and 10 grains of 3Fg even with a pressure spike due to an air gap I doubt would get to that level, let alone go high enough to damage a .30-30 firearm. Unless you really wanted to use BP because you have to horde your other powder, I think you could work up something using IMR4227 and keep the barrel clean at the same time. No?

LD

 

[44 Dave]

Wasn't the 30-30 the smokeless answer to the bp .32 Special? With a different refiling twist.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Wasn't the 30-30 the smokeless answer to the bp .32 Special? With a different refiling twist.

No, the 32ws was introduced about five years AFTER the 30wcf.

Maybe you're thinking about a 32-40 winchester/ballard which was a black powder cartridge.

It is true the 32ws rifles have a 1-16 rate of twist which has lead to a lot of speculation that it would be used for or reloaded with black powder. Other theories include Winchester using existing tooling that was used on previous 32 bores that were for black powder.

 

[Tommygunn]

Although .30-30 was always a smoke less powder load I have read that in the early years of its use it was pretty common to reload with blackpowder. It seemed to have worked, but it was dirtier than smoke less.

 

[PapaG]

I have loaded black in a number of bottleneck cartridges and have never had the success that I did with straight wall ones. I've done it with 7X57, 30-30, 32WS, and 30-40 (which did the best). Both jacketed and cast bullets (cast best).
Absolute wonderful accuracy with 32-40, 38-55 and 45-70 using a pinch of DuPont Bulk smokeless under a case full of either 3f (smaller) or 2f (larger) and breech seating the lead bullet just into the rifling. Old Javalina lube on most of them but some beeswax/mutton tallow which did fine.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Not theories, go here and read post #13. Winchester catalog, straight form the horses mouth.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?111624-32-Winchester-Special-with-Black-Powder

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Very interesting GG

 

[Malamute]

Excellent link Gringo. Thanks.

 

[PapaG]

I have read quite a few articles over the years extolling the superiority of the 32WS over the 30-30. Don't know if there is any material difference but the reads are interesting. My father had a M94 in 32 WS which he dearly loved and used on groundhog and fox here in good old IL. I had a Marlin 336 for a while in that caliber but didn't shoot it much as I was into black powder/round ball guns at the time.
I had a mould for the 32WS and used to load light loads for my little brother to shoot in the 94. He quickly outgrew the plinkers and wanted factory stuff.

 

[kBob]

All this .32 Winchester Special history is great, and interesting but......

am I going to damage someone's '94 Winchester or 336 Marlin with a load of 10 grains of BP with no filler under a 100 grain plain lead bullet?

-kBob

 

[Malamute]

It was done by factories for light loads from what I understand. Winchester also used to load a couple different light bullet light charge smokeless loads for 30-30.

Theres a guy that posts on several other forums under a couple of names. Hes very well informed on old cartridges and loads. I'll see if I can find anything hes posted about light loads of black. I know it was done, I don't know if theres any rules of thumb about how much.

One bit of interesting history. The 6 gr loads were smokeless BTW.

http://leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

If you go here and either search W30WCf's posts or send him a PM, he would likely know the answer.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?264206-Original-Bullet-for-30-30


BTW, light loads of smokeless are a heck of a lot of fun, and very conservative of powder and lead. As far as "making do" with black, I decided that keeping a couple pounds of smokeless pistol powder around would be much more useful for cast loads in rifles, and should last many years for hunting, figuring 1-2000 rds or more per lb, depending on load. 3 grs unique with a .310 round ball is about like shooting a 22, noise and power wise. 6 1/2 grs Unique with a 100-120 gr cast bullet is about like a 32-20. Other pistol powders will work as well or better.

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60476

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

All this .32 Winchester Special history is great, and interesting but......

am I going to damage someone's '94 Winchester or 336 Marlin with a load of 10 grains of BP with no filler under a 100 grain plain lead bullet?

-kBob

I can't say for sure what it would do to the gun but it goes against everything I've ever been told with black powder so I would not do it.

 

[Don McDowell]

All this .32 Winchester Special history is great, and interesting but......

am I going to damage someone's '94 Winchester or 336 Marlin with a load of 10 grains of BP with no filler under a 100 grain plain lead bullet?

-kBob

I think you might want to go back and double check the article. Quite possibly they used a filler such as corn meal. They could of also been speaking of one of the crossover powders of the day, Kings Semi Smokeless or Winchesters Nublack.
A 30-30 case will hold 40 + grs. of 2f blackpowder, 10 grs. doesn't take much room. I would suspect that load would probably foul so heavy that chambering the second round would be pretty hard.
Much better to leave the 30-30 with the powder it was born with, smokeless.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

For KBob

and 10 grains of 3Fg even with a pressure spike due to an air gap I doubt would get to that level, let alone go high enough to damage a .30-30 firearm.

LD

 

[4v50 Gary]

Good read Guacho Gringo.