Brass Deflectors on AR Service Rifles

[cdrt]

The question of whether or not you can use a brass deflector on an AR Service Rifle in CMP EIC matches came up over on the National Match Forum. I sent an email to the CMP to get a ruling and it is posted below. I posted the answer on the NM Forum and on the CMP forum as well to get the word out. Some guys indicated they have used them in the past and had not been challenged by whoever was checking rifles prior to the EIC match. I highlighted the answer.

Hi,

Sorry it has taken me a little bit to get back to you but I had to touch base with Gary on this one and he is out at the Board Meeting. I did receive an email back from him with the ruling.

Brass deflectors are not legal on M16/AR15s. They are an after-market item and not military issue and therefore, are not legal.

Please let me know if you need anything else. Have a great day.

Shannon

Shannon Hand
Civilian Marksmanship Program
Competitions Coordinator
P.O. Box 576
Port Clinton , Ohio 43452
419-635-2141 Ext. 1101
[email protected]

 

[dfugate]

The only brass deflector I have seen is the one that is molded on the upper from that factory to keep the brass from flying back in your face, but this is a permanent fixture just behind the ejection port.

 

[Shear_stress]

I thought a case deflector was sanctioned under NRA High Power Rules for lefties using A1-style uppers. Maybe Shannon was thinking of a brass catcher? Hell, few competition shooters shoot anything that's actually "military issues".

 

[cdrt]

thought a case deflector was sanctioned under NRA High Power Rules for lefties using A1-style uppers. Maybe Shannon was thinking of a brass catcher? Hell, few competition shoot anything that's actually "military issues".

This rule applies to CMP EIC Service Rifle Leg matches, not NRA matches and we are talking brass deflectors not brass catchers. CMP Service Rifles are those rifles issued by the military.

The A1 upper is not legal for CMP EIC leg matches; only A2 and A4 uppers are legal.

NRA rules do allow brass deflectors for NRA matches, but the NRA does not have the authority to change CMP rules for EIC matches; two entirely different organizations.

The only brass deflector I have seen is the one that is molded on the upper from that factory to keep the brass from flying back in your face, but this is a permanent fixture just behind the ejection port.

Correct, there is a bump-out on current ARs that help deflect the brass away from the shooter, but there are after market brass deflectors that are attached to the rifle just above the ejection port and that's what the CMP has ruled is an illegal modification.

Again, we're discussing CMP Service Rifle rules, not NRA High Power rifle rules.

 

[Shear_stress]

Thanks for the clarification about the different organizations. My post about the sanctioning of brass deflectors in NRA rules was meant as an expression of surprise about the CMP restriction. Note that I did question whether Shannon meant brass deflectors or catchers in my post.

only A2 and A4 uppers are legal.

Than can you explain what the issue is? Both have integral brass deflectors in the upper, so, to someone who doesn't shoot in CMP matches this seems sort of like a tempest in a tea pot.

 

[cdrt]

Than can you explain what the issue is? Both have integral brass deflectors in the upper, so, to someone who doesn't shoot in CMP matches this seems sort of like a tempest in a tea pot.

This was a clarification of Rule 6.1.3. (6) which does not allow modification of the external configuration of the rifle. Some felt that attaching an after-market brass deflector was not a violation of the rule, so that's why we wrote the CMP.

It may seem trivial but any deviation in one rule can lead to "well, that's what I've heard" type rulings at a match which may violate current rules. We're had several pistols get disqualified at Leg matches because competitors will read one rule change but not how that affects other rules.

For example, this year the CMP allowed front slide serrations on the 1911 Service Pistol which made a lot of guys think their Kimber .45 was legal for Leg Matches. They would be except most Kimbers have other features which still make them illegal; beavertail grip safety, etc.

 

[taliv]

hmm... a ton of guys i know shoot service rifle with the detachable brass deflector and i don't think they remove them for cmp matches.

thanks for the heads-up

 

[cdrt]

We've had a minor complication on this ruling. :banghead:

The current Army field manual on the M16 lists a brass deflector as an issue item under the Appendix on training aids.

I've emailed the CMP again to get a new ruling, since Gary used the "it's not an issue item" for his reason.

I will let you all know what his next email says when I get it.

 

[dfugate]

Just asking but why would someone want to use these things anyway, I don’t see anyone on the range using them, including the AMU and Marines; if there is that much controversy over it just dont use one.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Most folks I see use them are left handed.

 

[Toten Kopf]

I have one of the old military brass deflectors. If I remember correctly they were made at Ft. Jackson, SC.

The unit I was with got rid of them when the A2 rifle came out.

 

[cdrt]

Update: Still waiting to hear back from the CMP. I sent a follow-up email and will post their answer once I get it.

The old Army field manual shows the brass deflector as a training aid; the new manual has deleted it, since it is not needed with the A2 or A4 upper.

 

[fordfan485]

I started using one in nra matches, I use it because it doesn't eject my brass 10-15ft away from me and hit my neighbor and im not hunting for my brass, its all in a small pile right next to me when done shooting.

 

[Hummer70]

This pretty well explains the need.
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-8.html scroll down to February 1983.

"February: Aberdeen releases the report "Technical Feasibility Test of M16A1E1 Rifle." Out of the 27 criteria used in evaluation, the M16A1E1 met 19, partially met 5, and failed 3. Some of the problems are blamed on the extremely poor quality of the Lake City XM855E1(FN) cartridges. The major criticism of the rifle centers on the ejection pattern, which results in firers to the right of the rifle being struck by hot cartridge cases. This characteristic was carried over from the M16A1, and there had been training incidents in the past where the adjacent shooter would lose muzzle awareness upon being struck by hot brass and negligently discharge his weapon. In some instances, this had resulted in neighboring shooters being shot, and in certain cases, killed. As a result, this characteristic is classified as a "Catastrophic/Occasional" deficiency. Also noted are marginal firing pin energy and buffer failure in cold temperatures. These are classified as shortcomings."

 

[P-32]

You can always "potty train" your AR. You should have a spare ejector spring handy but what you do is cut the ejector spring a little at a time until it dumps the brass where you want it. I have a WOP upper that puts the spent brass in a pile next to my scope stand when shooting offhand and can get them into the stool most of the time when shooting sitting rapid or prone.

 

[scythefwd]

cdrt,
The brass deflector is one of the modifications made to the A2 from the A1. It is a bump, about the thickness of your thumb behind the ejection port. The other modifications were the forward assist, the change in rifling rate, the thickness of the barrel, and the use of a flash compensator instead of a flash suppressor. The brass deflector on the A2 service rifle is integrated into the upper receiver group and is not removable.

 

[dieselkanic]

If you shoot lefthanded, the (hot) brass will hit you in the face. Trust me, it hurts.

Sounds like some of these guys are using them to direct their brass into a nice neat pile although I don't remember them functioning in that manner.

 

[scythefwd]

dieselkanic,
Can I see your upper receiver? There wasn't a problem with the south-paw shooters we had in basic in regards to brass. I'm just wondering what the difference is between what I was issued and what people are buying.

 

[Howard Roark]

I don't know why this thread was dredged up but this was addressed in the 2009 CMP rules. Brass deflectors are officialy OK.

6.2.3 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16
(13) A DVC-T-30 or commercial equivalent case deflector may be attached.

This is what one is refering to when speaking of a brass deflector as it partains to CMP service rifle competition:

Fret no more.

 

[Hummer70]

I just picked up a TC today for the flat top receiver and looking forward to using it after I pad the rear surface with Armaflex to stop it from denting in the case mouths.

It says on the device that it is CMP and NRA approved.

Insofar as potty training rifles, guys that do it right can get a better group of brass on the ground than they can on the target. I have seen all ten rounds laying in a 8" circle about 1:30 from the ejection port.

I also got a spacer block (for scope mounting) and I think I can fab a similar deflector and have it screw directly to the spacer block so it can go on and off at will.

On a previous design a I used a section of seat belt material and kind of a curtain and case would hit it, dampen its velocity and drop brass close by as well. I like to pick up brass that looks like it has been fired in a bolt rifle.