"Bravo Two Zero" = must watch

[Nando Aqui]

After reading someone here at THR recommend this 'book', I rented the VHS tape (may be available as DVD elsewhere) and was pleasantly surprised. I thought it was an excellent movie.

It is a true story and although a low budget flick, it appears to be very realistic - but I can't judge, as I wasn't there. The only thing I may question is the much greater percentage of shots fired by the SAS members that actually scored vs those fired by the Iraqis. The SAS could hardly miss (relatively speaking); the Iraqis couldn't hit anything - - perhaps this is how it was.

The movie is about a group of eight SAS soldiers that are dropped by heli in northern Iraq to destroy Scud installations. They have some fierce fights and run into real trouble. You really need to watch it.

Alex

 

[dude]

to bad McNabb and his "Bravo Two Zero" claims have mostly been proven bogus

 

[keederdag]

Where did you rent this one, I'd like to see it too?

 

[Nando Aqui]

Dude, you are probably correct; but even if it were all fiction, it still is pretty good, IMO.

Keederdag - Rent where? My wife got it at the grocery store: St. Louis area, Dierberg's. She rented "Bravo Two Zero" and "Haunted" (Kate Beckinsale), $1.99 for both 'VHS tapes' 5-day rentals.

Alex

 

[Sean Smith]

I'd heard from a guy who had a reason to know that McNabb was an ???. Kudos to his ghostwriter, however.

On the other hand, the Bravo Two Zero movie stars the excellent Sean Bean. I've heard the movie is quite good too.

The SAS could hardly miss (relatively speaking); the Iraqis couldn't hit anything - - perhaps this is how it was.

That sounds about right to me. You have a bunch of subliterate conscripts vs. special forces types and that's what you get.

 

[444]

Proven by who ?

 

[tetleyb]

I believe he is referring to Michael Asher. Michael Asher was a member of 23 SAS, which is one of two reserve squadrons of the SAS. He is a devoute believer in the middle eastern culture, etc. He wrote a book called "The Real Bravo Two Zero." He claims Andy McNab's accounts and Chris Ryan's accounts are false and/or embellished.

At the sametime, his own writings are under the gun. For instance he says, "I know the beduion people. They would rather die then tell a lie." Therefore, the people who I talked too are telling the truth. Andy and Chris are lying.

Except in his own book he admits, one of his central "characters" lied to him about what happened to Vince Phillips pistol. The fact this character found the pistol and kept it. And when he personally asks this person what happened to the pistol, he is lied too. However, he doesn't go back to say all of what this person has to say is now suspect. Not to mention, Saddam had this entire interview and "re-enactment" stages. Of course, he denies this, however how many of you believe it?

Andy McNab was caught and tortured. Much of what he had to say was on video tape by the Iraqi's. If he was such a coward, if what happened did not happen, don't you think the Iraqi's would have published it? Bravo Two Zero is the number one selling military book in UK history. Its been translated in every language in the world. I'm sure the Iraqi's know about it. Not to mention, Michael Asher had many conversations with the Iraqi's before he went to the country.

To say everything Andy McNab has to say was proven false is an embellishment to no end. Andy and Chris for that matter may have embellished the story for drama purposes, I won't argue that. However, the basic premise of both stories is true. That is the main thing here.

An 8 man patrol, cut off behind enemy lines, being hunted, and humping the distances they went, in the weather conditions they were in, is remarkable. By ANYONES standards. The entire patrol were hero's in every sense of the word; bar none.

Is Andy McNab an AH? Probably. He has been married five times. I believe that might just explain somethings.

 

[444]

Obviously, I don't know anything about what really happened there, but a couple things tell me that the idea that Andy McNabb has been discredited is BS. #1 during the first few weeks of the present Iraq war, Fox News had Andy McNabb on frequently as one of their expert commentators. I really don't think they would put Andy on there along side generals etc. if he was "proven" to be FOS. #2 a guy I work with spent 10 years as a US Army Ranger. I had just watched the movie and asked him if he ever had any contact with the SAS when he was in the military. He told me that they were the most hardcore group of people he had ever seen. He then asked me if I remembered ________ from the movie (I don't remember the name he asked). He told me that he had been instructed in a course by that guy (it was one of the guys that wasn't captrued). He didn't say anymore than that about it, but he didnt' say that the guy was a poser, didn't say that they whole thing was a crock or anything like that. He was very impressed with the guy.

 

[Nando Aqui]

Has anyone read the book and watched the video, and if so, how faithful is the video to the book - within reason, of course?

Alex

Oh, oh --- I just found out that my wife took the video back; she didn't know that I wanted to watch it again. Oh well... Maybe I'll just have to buy the DVD ($16 though...)

 

[444]

I have read the book and watched the movie, but I can't answer your question.
Every book I ever read that was later made into a movie was far deeper than the movie. But, if you read the book first, you understand a lot more of what is going on during the movie. Since in this case I read the book first, I can't really say. I suppose it followed the book to some extent, but you miss about 90% of the background information and of course every subject dealt with in the movie is dealt with much deeper in the book.
I recommend that anytime you have a choice between a book and a movie, always read the book.
I was very disappointed in the movie beginning with it's low budget appearance.

 

[NewShooter78]

I don't know how accurate the movie is, but you should be able to get it at Best Buy for $9.99.

 

[JoshM]

Of the B2Z team, two members [McNabb & Ryan] were able to write their stories and break the traditional silence about SAS operations. A third team member though known as 'Mark the Kiwi' is locked in litigation with the UK MOD about the publishing of his own work.

During a recent BBC documentary, 'Mark the Kiwi' claimed that the other authors stretched the truth.

More importantly the documentary proved that British commanders knew the mission had been compromised yet failed to either acknowledge the team's communications or implement the 'lost comms procedure'.

Ryan's account in 'The One That Got Away' though contends that radio failure was simply because of 'wrong frequencies'.

 

[Browns Fan]

I read and liked the book; I'll be looking for the movie at the local video rental.

 

[444]

"More importantly the documentary proved that British commanders knew the mission had been compromised yet failed to either acknowledge the team's communications or implement the 'lost comms procedure'. "

How was this proven ?

 

[Zip06]

I read the book and was quite impressed. Great ghost writer as has been pointed out. Saw the movie and was under impressed. The book is awesome. Is McNab FOS??? Who knows but one thing is for certain and that is that he was the most highly decorated man in the British military.

 

[JoshM]

444

The BBC interviewer stated that he had seen radio logs containing B2Z transmissions from sources within the British military.

The fact that the 'lost comms procedure' was never implemented was never really explained. Except that British Commander, Gulf Forces [a former SAS man/commander] , General Sir Peter De La Billiere was concerned that Gen Schwarzkopf [hardly a fan of special operation forces] would then cancel further SAS operations in Iraq.

 

[444]

"The BBC interviewer stated that he had seen radio logs containing B2Z transmissions from sources within the British military."

I wonder then why they didn't answer them ?

"The fact that the 'lost comms procedure' was never implemented was never really explained. "

If I remember correctly, this wouldn't have mattered. Again IIRC the no-com proceedure was that so long after they lost com a helio would come and land at a predesignated time and place. But, I think the team was already on the run before that. I may be wrong, but it would suck to know that if you made it to the LZ they weren't going to be there.

 

[Amegatek]

Of the B2Z team, two members [McNabb & Ryan] were able to write their stories and break the traditional silence about SAS operations. A third team member though known as 'Mark the Kiwi' is locked in litigation with the UK MOD about the publishing of his own work.

Must be quite different than US Spec-Ops. When Dick Marcinko wrote "Rogue Warrior" he published details about still classified Navy Seal (Seal Team Six) ops. He then went to jail. Also, I believe he started writing his second effort, "Red Cell" during his stay in the slammer. All his books after the first were "loosely" based on real ops, but had important details fubarred so he could publish the books. BTW, the RW series is entertaining reading, although some object to Marcinko cussing like a sailor! He was a sailor, get over it!

 

[tetleyb]

444,

I'll try to break it down to you. Its a big political problem. First, Stormin Norman was and is on the record as not liking Special Forces. He ran into too many problems with them in Vietnam. Therefore, he didn't want to use them in this war.

General DeBelliure (sp) who was in charge of the British Forces during the Gulf War convinced Norman to use the SAS in Scud Busting. When the Iraqi's started to launch scuds at Israel, the coalition was afraid Israel would retaliate. If they did, it would mean the end of the Arab backed coalition. Therefore, the SAS along with others, went on a Scud Hunt.

Bravo Two Zero was the most northern patrol used in this action. There job, along with Bravo One Zero and Bravo Three Zero, were to find scuds on the ground. Bravo Two Zero was the only patrol who didn't take vehicles by the way. Also, one of the other two patrols, upon insertion, immediately turned around and went back; because of the terrain. The other patrol was picked up several days later. McNab's patrol was the only one who actually stayed out on the ground and did what they were supposed to do (kinda).

Anyways, when the patrol was comprimised, the SAS men back at the base wanted to launch a full scale search/rescue mission. The brit powers that be denied this. The reason: they didn't want to ask the Americans for help. The brits didn't have proper equipment, etc for such a task. And when a rescue was attempted, it was a joint rescue attempt.

Mark Coburn was the first person in the patrol to let this part out. Both McNab and Ryan has never mentioned this. This is a more complete account:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st.../panorama/transcripts/transcript_10_02_02.txt

In so far as McNab himself. I've never met the man. I do, however, know alot of current and past 22nd SAS members. Most do not talk one way or the other about "regiment" members. My impressions is they felt McNab to be an exceptional soldier, however, as a person he may leave a few things to be desired.

McNab was the highest decorated soldier when he retired in 1993. He was awarded both the MM (Military Medal) and the DCM (Distinguished Conduct Medal). The brit army isnt like ours; you EARN medals in their army. He was the commander of the patrol, even though Vince Phillips had more time in grade then he. He was specifically chosen for a 2 yr assignment with the 14th Intelligence Company in Northern Ireland. A prestigeous assignment.

Alot of resentment toward McNab can be attributed to ego and envy. Ryan only received an MM for his escape to Syria (probably should have gotten a higher award; the DCM is a higher award). He also is now a millionaire, when others believe they should be in his position.

In B20 the book, McNab never says anything bad about anyone. In fact, he slams himself more then anything else. And has nothing but praise for the other members of the patrol. To be quite honest, I would really like to meet him.

 

[tetleyb]

Oh, I forgot, the movie.

McNab sold the rights to the BBC, which is why it is a low budget movie. He had many requests from Hollywood to make the movie. He turned them down, because they wanted to change facts to "sensationalize" the story even more. He personally oversaw the making of the movie, trying to get it as close as possible, within budget constraints, etc as to what really happened.

For those of you who do not know, McNab and Ryan have been barred from writing any further "true life" stories, by the MOD (Ministry of Defense). Therefore, they both now write fiction. I'm not a fan of Ryan, however. He appears to egotistical for me.

You can go to Amazon and run a check on McNab's name and come up with all his books. In fact, a new one is coming out in about one month.

Currently, one of his books, Crisis Four, is being made into a movie in Hollywood by Miramax. Again, McNab is helping make the movie.

One final bit of trivia: For those of you who love the movie Heat (and being gun nuts, I'm sure you all do). ALL of the weapons scenes, including the big bank shootout, was put together by Andy McNab. So was the weapons training, etc. He was the technical advisor for the movie.

 

[Sean Smith]

I believe he is referring to Michael Asher.

I wasn't. Maybe somebody else was.