British soldier could have been saved...

[jaxbeach904]

The grisly murder of the young brit soldier today on a busy south London street is yet another reason I carry and encourage everyone else to do so. This young man most assuredly would have been saved if somebody was carrying nearby. It took armed police 20 minutes to show up before both suspects were shot. If they had fled who knows what would have happened. I know none of us here hopes to have to use a firearm for self defense, but the fact that we have that option could prevent more stories like these. Now lets see how Piers spins this one. Oh, and one more thing, the British govt has preliminarily classified this as a terrorist threat but what "Major" Nidal Hasan did was "workplace violence". Gimme a break. Be safe out there.....

 

[SabbathWolf]

Yep. I just read about this earlier.
The people who want to turn America into Britain are full-on retards.

 

[lemaymiami]

that's an understatement. I'd say more but I'm trying to be polite.... At best the folks we're dealing with are well meaning fools...

 

[tekarra]

This is a compelling case for an armed citizenry.

 

[average_shooter]

What is thoroughly disturbing to me is watching the video of the attacker holding the knives, covered in blood, talking to the camera person, and seeing all of the people in the background doing absolutely nothing for the victim. Nothing. No one tried to render aid, no one tried to subdue the attackers, everyone just stood around and watched a man die.

That shows me that the entire society is fouled-up beyond recognition.

ETA: As an aside, didn't the British government ban sharp pointy knives for this very reason? And I thought that violent crime wasn't supposed to happen once all the guns were gone... oh wait...

 

[lpsharp88]

What is thoroughly disturbing to me is watching the video of the attacker holding the knives, covered in blood, talking to the camera person, and seeing all of the people in the background doing absolutely nothing for the victim. Nothing. No one tried to render aid, no one tried to subdue the attackers, everyone just stood around and watched a man die.

That shows me that the entire society is fouled-up beyond recognition.

ETA: As an aside, didn't the British government ban sharp pointy knives for this very reason? And I thought that violent crime wasn't supposed to happen once all the guns were gone... oh wait...

^this AND why did it take 20 minutes for the police to come? I just watched the CBS Evening news and they mentioned it took 20 minutes!

**EDIT**
Just saw the OP mentioned that, oops

 

[josiewales]

You know what's REALLY disturbing? Several years ago there was a thread on whether or not you would help a victim of an attack. The majority of THR members said, they would not help a victim if it endangered there own lives. That, my friends, is disturbing.

 

[josiewales]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=599417

 

[kwguy]

Not only did they NOT help, but they stood around FILMING it.

What in the world is wrong with people.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

So are we going to start a thread every time someone gets murdered in public, in a place where people aren't allowed to carry or own?

England is an oppressive place and the vast majority of the entire world is filled with apathetic people....... we know....... preaching to the choir.

Sorry, I just see a lot of these.

 

[SabbathWolf]

choir...

 

[jim243]

That, my friends, is disturbing.

You can't know what you will or will not do, until the time and conditions present themselves.

Jim

 

[jaxbeach904]

So are we going to start a thread every time someone gets murdered in public, in a place where people aren't allowed to carry or own?

England is an oppressive place and the vast majority of the entire world is filled with apathetic people....... we know....... preaching to the quire.

Sorry, I just see a lot of these.

Agreed, but not talking about these kinds of things and not constantly reminding ourselves to stay alert and vigilant makes us lose a little sharpness. I don't mean live in fear, but we need to keep reminding ourselves that what's left of are liberties here are a heck of a lot more than any other country has and that we shouldn't let our values or traditions fade away because of "progressivism".

 

[hso]

This young man most assuredly would have been saved

That assumption is incorrect. He might have been saved, but the surprise and speed of such an attack makes it unlikely that someone would have reacted quickly enough to stop the attack with a handgun. Remember that they hit him with their car before jumping out an attacking him viciously. Also remember that a handful of women tried to help, interrupting the attack, but the brutality of the attack had done far too much damage.

Don't underestimate the lethal damage of big blades and don't delude yourselves into believing that a handgun is some magic talisman.

 

[oneounceload]

I know none of us here hopes to have to use a firearm for self defense, but the fact that we have that option could prevent more stories like these.

Not everyone in this country has that option

Not only did they NOT help, but they stood around FILMING it

And what would YOU have done? Gone up against two fanatics wielding cleavers and machetes with your bare hands? I doubt it.
I AM surprised that no one went to the Army barracks right next to where this happened for some help

 

[kwguy]

And what would YOU have done? Gone up against two fanatics wielding cleavers and machetes with your bare hands? I doubt it.
I AM surprised that no one went to the Army barracks right next to where this happened for some help

You answered your own question. Obviously hand to hand against two machete armed wackos is not a good idea, but filming the killing is not what I would call a 'helpful' response. Going to the barracks to get help surely would have been a better option. Maybe they were just practicing to be reporters...

 

[JShirley]

I have killed downed but still live deer in less than half a second with 5" bladed knife- and this was before I had years of training. I'm sure that deer hit with a crossbow bolt was in better shape than this poor soldier after being struck by a car, too.

John

 

[labhound]

hs0 your post is exactly what the anti-gun groups say when the NRA and pro-gun groups suggest putting armed guards in schools to stop gunmen and protect the kids. I find your reasoning very troubling!!!

 

[TCB in TN]

And this is what decades of being unarmed does for a society. Even here in the states some area are so brainwashed that the same thing would happen. And sadly that is the condition that many of our political leaders want for us.

 

[TennJed]

hs0 your post is exactly what the anti-gun groups say when the NRA and pro-gun groups suggest putting armed guards in schools to stop gunmen and protect the kids. I find your reasoning very troubling!!!

I have not seen the video of the attacking, but the reports I have read seem to indicate it was quick. There is no way of knowing if a gun would have stopped it and there is a very good chance it would not have. I love guns. I think I should be able to buy what I want, when I want, and carry it where I want. That doesn't mean I can't be rational or realistic. The idea that some people yell "should have had a gun" every time a crime is committed makes gun owners as a whole look foolish. Blind faith is disturbing.

It is much better to promote our cause by spreading successful examples, not shouting "shoulda had a gun" when there is no way to back up the claim

 

[kwguy]

You can't know what you will or will not do, until the time and conditions present themselves.

Pretty much true.

I have killed downed but still live deer in less than half a second with 5" bladed knife- and this was before I had years of training. I'm sure that deer hit with a crossbow bolt was in better shape than this poor soldier after being struck by a car, too.

Very true as well. As soon as that guy was hit by the car, he was most likely done. Those jerks were on a mission.

There is no real way to know how the presence of armed citizens would have affected this particular outcome. Monday morning quarterbacking is just that, after the fact. You can make some generalizations, such as:

If there were a well intentioned, armed citizen there, then the response time would surely have been faster than 20 minutes. That being said, I doubt that would have saved the life of that soldier. It appears the attack happened extremely rapidly, and would have been inside the decision cycle of anyone who may have been in a position to help.

A pistol is not a talisman that prevents or stops all bad things from happening, but it is a tool that gives you more options. If some homicidal nut has a gun pointed right at your head demanding money or whatever, and you want to try to draw from deep concealment and tag him, good luck with that. But in this particular case, if those nuts had decided to continue killing other people after killing that soldier, someones pistol could make a difference. Every situation is different, and you can't predict everything.

The point I believe many are trying to make, is that having armed citizens, in general, is a deterrent, and can help save lives against potential agressors. Maybe not in EVERY case, but that's true for all things.

I think another thing that bothers folks is the percieved apathy, at least initially, of the people near the scene of that murder. Maybe that is an incorrect assesment. Maybe everyone around DID try to run for help or whatever, or maybe even threw rocks at the attackers, for all I know. I certainly HOPE they did more than simply film the event. If that's the case, then that's pretty lame, and a sad testament to us in general.

 

[labhound]

It is much better to promote our cause by spreading successful examples, not shouting "shoulda had a gun" when there is no way to back up the claim

TennJed You can never back up any claim of "well this could have been prevented IF", but you don't back down from the possibility that a gun may have prevented the incident and just roll over.

 

[Nico Testosteros]

What if the terrorists had shot the soldier?

 

[Milamber]

I was born and raised in London and I am appalled by the behaviour of the people who just sat there and watched. It saddens me that no one had the bulldog spirit and came to this guys aid.

All it takes is courage and sheer numbers to stop these people. I would have.

The British people are now so brainwashed by the government their have become volunteer victims.

Sad day. My heart goes out to the poor guys family

 

[TCB in TN]

A gun in the hands of a single person may or may not stop an attack. But not having a gun in the good guys hands makes stopping an attack a lot harder.

Would an armed citizen been able to save this soldier? We have no way to know, but stopping the attack early would have improved his chance of surviving. Those many extra min that they continued to attack him could have been stopped.