Broadside deer recovery distance?

[Peakbagger46]

What have you all seen for recovery distance on deer or elk with behind the shoulder shots with a rifle? Think I’m about up to five mule deer with my .308 shooting 165g Accubonds and two with the 30-06 using 180g Accubonds. My choice of shot placement behind the shoulder is for meat preservation.

All of these animals with the exception of one have run after the shot. Longest blood trail was probably 60 yards, average of around 40 yards. Only one has dropped without going anywhere. Are these results typical for behind the shoulder placement?

Here’s a picture of the exit wound on the doe I took yesterday at 175 yards (longer range than I usually harvest deer at). She ran about 30 yards. This placement is right where I normally shoot.

 

[jmr40]

Sounds normal to me. With that shot the animal basically drowns from blood in the lungs. They have roughly 15-30 seconds to stay on their feet. During that time some lie down and die, but most run.

Nothing wrong with your bullet choice, it is working as designed. But with that shot placement a lighter, faster, faster expanding bullet might put them down faster. But if you don't have ideal shot placement a faster expanding bullet might let one run even farther and not be recovered. A harder bullet like you're using might not put them on the ground as fast, but will give better penetration if shots are taken from less desirable angles. Nothing wrong with either approach to killing stuff as long as you understand how the bullet is designed to work and not ask it to do something it wasn't designed to do.

 

[caribou]

Hit a Caribou 'broadside' and give them time to die. Thats my mod of operandi. I preferr head/neck shots, but past 100-150 yards I move to the chest. Same for running Caribou, as after the first shot, they are all running.

There are those who would keep shooting untill its down, but it also depends on the animal and where it was hit.
Since I live in the 'Great wide open' Tundra, I just hit 'em, and follow them till they drop, if they go anywhere at all. Blood on snow is no great tracking feat.
Moose, on the other hand, live in our tree belts and willows along the rivers, and a second , follow up shot to keep them from hitting the water or making the deep willows to die is a good idea.

 

[MCgunner]

I prefer the shoulder shot. It takes out the landing gear even if it don't kill 'em DRT and I don't have to go blood trailing in the dense woods with all the stickers and thorns. Ain't got a choice with the crossbow, but I do with the rifle. They're almost always dead where they stand. If any meat is ruined, it ain't much and it's only grinding meat. There's plenty of grinding meat on a deer. I grind everything except the backstrap, tenderloin, and a couple of roasts off the rump/hind quarters. A deer in the hand is worth two lost in the bush. LOL I've only ever lost one deer, a long time ago. I don't like the feeling, though, and don't like having to blood trail a deer in heavy cover. That goes triple for wounding a hog. Of course, due to anatomy, you don't shoot a hog behind the shoulder, you shoot it ON the shoulder or base of the head. I found THAT out the hard way. He didn't get me before I got him, but it sure raised my heart rate for a while.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I have shot many deer with a lot of different firearms. They almost invariably run 25 to 100 yards after a double lung or heart shot.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Double lung ,great for saving meat but you are on par with 40 to 60yds.MHO

 

[Art Eatman]

Mostly neck shots for me. The very few I've shot in the heart/lung area flopped immediately. '06; Sierra bullets. Mostly under 200 yards, but one at 350 and one at 450; both bang-flop chest shots.

 

[VoodooMountain]

They will run everytime unless you hit the cns. It is why there are so many hunters that want 2 leaky holes instead of one, that is penetration vs fragmentation.

Deer with a broken shoulder (or 2) can go an awful long way before they finally go down.

 

[Orcon]

I plugged a fawn last year with a 168gr A-Max with an estimated impact velocity of 2600 fps. It was a straight on chest shot, entering squarely through the sternum and split his rib cage and abdomen wide open. That little deer made 3 full laps in about a 25 yard circle with his lungs flapping in the dirt before he realized it was nap time. Unless you score a CNS shot, you can't count on a bang-flop outcome.

 

[22250Rem]

Double lung ,great for saving meat but you are on par with 40 to 60yds.MHO

...... That's about how far they go with a double lung shot in my experience. At least I know they won't get too far off.

 

[LoonWulf]

My experience is, it depends.
Our animals arnt very large, with a big buck running 150-200lbs (I've seen, and shot larger, but they are very rare). Does average 100-120, with a very large Dow hitting 150.

With my 30-06, I expected them to run somewhat at least.
With my 7mms and .300s the farthest one that wasn't already running has gone is probably 20yds. If they aren't amped up I expect them to be down where they stood.

I shoot behind the shoulder because the bullets I like are extremely destructive.
A 162 amax from the 7 @ 3k opens a fist size exit wound or larger.
The 180 balistic tips I shot from my .300s at 3k, would usually leave a similar exit wound, but the internal damage was much greater, so I believe it was mostly the jacket and smaller bits of the core exiting.

On shoulder shots, exit wounds would be smaller, or non-existent, but everything in the chest cavity is usually jelly, and both shoulders are trashed unless the animal is quartering.


Again this is just my experience, but if you want faster stops on soft tissue/light bone hits, shoot a softer bullet.
If your going to break shoulder shoot a tougher bullet to reduce tissue damage.

I've had stupendous results with quick expanding bullets from small fast caliber rifles, but the shots have to miss all heavy bones.


.

 

[Grumulkin]

This is one of three deer I took with 168 grain Berger VLD bullets out of a 308 Winchester. Every one of them was DRT. The other two were neck shots so no surprise. I took no pictures of the last two because it was dark and the mosquitos were biting.



A closer look at the exit wound.

 

[MidRoad]

The deer I have or have seen taken run 40-100 yardsish for a double lung. I've split the heart twice and they still run about as far. I avoid the shoulder if possible to maximize meat recovered. Only had one DRT and that was because it hit higher than intended and I think it shocked it's CNS and dropped it, didn't hit the spine . Rifles used .270,30-06, and 30-30, all had similar results.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm gonna skew the results a little, perhaps. With a patched, 225 grain, all lead, .530 round ball, my hits on doe, have all been through and through even out to 110 yards. The doe are always within sight of the spot where they were hit, and I don't go for the heart, only the lungs, as I like to eat the heart. The farthest a doe went has been 20 yards. Now on bucks, especially one that had been spooked from a neighboring farm by fox-hunters, even though also a through and through hit, he went more than 100 yards.

I prefer the shoulder shot. It takes out the landing gear even if it don't kill 'em DRT and I don't have to go blood trailing in the dense woods with all the stickers and thorns...., They're almost always dead where they stand .

MCgunner reports what a cohort of mine has found in the past three or four years. He has gone out, also with a ML and a patched round ball, and only taken shoulder shots, at deer quartering toward him. So not very scientific, but he reports that they fold where they are standing. Upon inspection of the carcass he thinks the ball either deflects toward and into the spine when it hits the shoulder bone, OR transmits impact shock to the spine from impact into the shoulder bone. Something for you cartridge folks to think about, with delivering a lot more impact power to that area than we do with the ML's.

LD

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

OR transmits impact shock to the spine from impact into the shoulder bone.

Bow hunting a few years ago, I shot a buck broadside quartering away slightly. It dropped where it stood but with it's head up and very alert. After about a minute or a little more it died. The arrow had hit the far side leg bone. It didn't even break it but the deer dropped just as if hit in the spine.
On another occasion a friend shot a running buck with a 20 gauge slug. It did a somersault or two as it went down. Several minutes passed before she approached the deer. When she was within a few yards of it the buck got up and ran. Another member of the group shot it a quarter mile away. After pulling out the sod it picked up in it's antlers we could see that it had been hit in the brow tine and knocked out.

 

[Axis II]

I only have a handful of deer under my belt and all of them have been killed with a rifle or shotgun.

1) 50cal ML with 250gr shockwave sabots and 100gr 777 pellets, broadside at about 50yards. Not a drop of blood, no exit wound and hit the lungs. Recovered about 100yards away. Large body buck if that matters
2) 45-70govt 300gr Hornady JHP, 1700-1800 fps, broadside at 70yards, 130lbs dressed doe, punched the lungs and sprayed a blood trail 100yards long I had NO issue following in the dark. She went about 150+yards in a circle. I'm not sure if i pushed her because I got down when i heard her crash. Both lungs hit and exit hole was pretty big.
3) 50 cal ML with 300gr .452 JHP 100gr BH209, medium size doe, 60ish yards, punched the heart right in half, deer ran about 30yards before rearing up and falling backwards. So much blood Stevie Wonder could have followed.
4) 45-70govt with the same 300gr JHP load, broadside at 110yards, 140-150lbs dressed 5yo buck, ended up hitting him in the neck and dropped him like a sack of potato's.

The doe and first buck i have no idea how they ran so far with the wounds they had. I hear the bullets on the first buck have a tendency to fragment but the doe should have went down sooner.

 

[WestKentucky]

I won’t shoot behind the shoulder anymore. I had great results with it for years but the first time it was a problem it was a big problem. In the 15 years or so that I had been hunting before the issue that was my shot, just behind the shoulder at a broadside deer. I hunt fields during rifle season, and they all ran to the edge of the field and laid down in the brush. I never had to drag a deer more than about 20 yards out of the woods after a chest shot, so probably an average run of about 50-60 yards almost exclusively with .270 win. Then 2008 happened...

Big mature non typical buck mounted on a doe. I waited for him to finish his business. It was a 200 yard shot and I saw the ripple on the skin when the bullet hit. Heard the big plop. Deer hunkered up and took off into the brush. Was struggling to stay up once he was at the edge of the field so I didn’t send another round. I walked back to the truck and parked it within a few feet of where the buck was standing. That deer staggered around in the woods for almost 2 miles and crossed the creek at least 4 times. My beagle found him while we were rabbit hunting a couple months later.

Since then my shots are further forward. I intend to destroy the shoulders and anchor the deer rather than try to save a couple pounds of shoulder. No more free passes on 2nd shot either. My last buck was with a 10mm pistol. He got out of handgun range, was staggering and still caught a slug from the .270 just because he was still standing. Insurance shots are cheap.

 

[MCgunner]

I'm gonna skew the results a little, perhaps. With a patched, 225 grain, all lead, .530 round ball, my hits on doe, have all been through and through even out to 110 yards. The doe are always within sight of the spot where they were hit, and I don't go for the heart, only the lungs, as I like to eat the heart. The farthest a doe went has been 20 yards. Now on bucks, especially one that had been spooked from a neighboring farm by fox-hunters, even though also a through and through hit, he went more than 100 yards.



MCgunner reports what a cohort of mine has found in the past three or four years. He has gone out, also with a ML and a patched round ball, and only taken shoulder shots, at deer quartering toward him. So not very scientific, but he reports that they fold where they are standing. Upon inspection of the carcass he thinks the ball either deflects toward and into the spine when it hits the shoulder bone, OR transmits impact shock to the spine from impact into the shoulder bone. Something for you cartridge folks to think about, with delivering a lot more impact power to that area than we do with the ML's.

LD

I shot a doe at about 200 yards with my .257 Roberts out in west Texas, trans pecos, had a lease there in a hunting club I was in 25 or 30 years ago. I hit that deer quartering toward me in the front tip of the left shoulder. I heard a loud, audible "CRACK!" and she dropped deader than dead. When I butchered, I found what had happened. The bullet deflected off the shoulder and up into a vertebra in her back which made the "crack". The vertebra shattered and the bullet deflected off it and down through the other lung and stopped under the skin on the off side after shattering a rib. Wow, that was some trip for that bullet through that deer. It was effective, though, and I had minimal meat damage.

 

[FL-NC]

On white tail, most of mine have been taken with 243 or 223. The longest I had one run was maybe 100 yards with the 243, leaving a blood trail a blind man could follow. On the 223, the longest I had one run was 20-30. Most of my broadside shots with either, they were either DRT or I saw them go down within just a few steps. With 243 I use Win 100 grain power points, 223 I use Hornady 75 grain BTHP. The most unimpressive round I used was 7.62 x 39 winchester soft points- shot several at 100 yards or less, never got an exit wound, and had one run well over 100 yards into a swamp. I no longer use that caliber.

 

[MCgunner]

I love the cheap 154 SP Wolf or other Russian brand 7.62x39. Kills big hogs quite dead. Every rifle needs the right ammo. I have shot a couple of deer with it using handloaded Sierra .308" 135 grain Pro Hunters that were loaded to 2150 fps. The bullet was designed for Contenders which push it a little slower. But, I'm more impressed with this cheap steel cased 154 grain stuff. It's also more accurate than anything else I've fired in my SKSs. It shoots right through a big hogs shoulders. No deer will stop it.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Thanks all for sharing your experiences. Looks like what I’m seeing is fairly normal. With the good blood trails and lack of meat loss I’m getting, I see no reason to change.

 

[someguy2800]

Anywhere from 0 to 200 yards. I almost always take double lung/heart shots and 80% majority run 50-150 yards. Sprinkle in a few that are knocked unconscious from the shot and few here and there that go a bit further.

As was said above a lung shot on deer starts the 15-30 second timer till they run out of oxygen to the brain and loose consciousness.

 

[cheygriz]

I use Speer 150 grain BTSP at 2900 fps. Haven't had a deer or elk go over 50-60 yards. High shoulder shots over 100 yards, neck shots under 100.

 

[Patocazador]

If they're close and angling towards me, it's a neck shot and they go down. If broadside or far away, it's a double-lung shot and they run 25-80 yards. I always use Nosler partitions and seldom take a second shot.
Out west some of the guys used very fast varmint bullets in the lungs and the deer just dropped. I copied them until I hit a shoulder one day and the bullet blew up on the shoulder blade. The deer went 1/2 mile before I got a second shot into him. That ended the fast, light bullet experiment for me ... back to the partitions ever since .. with no regrets.

 

[Captcurt]

I've had stupendous results with quick expanding bullets from small fast caliber rifles, but the shots have to miss all heavy bones.


.

I learned this with my 243. I loaded some 90gr Nosler BT for an armadillo load. It would blow chunks the size of a tennis ball twenty feet into the air and blew innards 10 feet out of coyotes. Turned one loose on a bambi at about 30 yards. Hit it on the shoulder and it blew up. Ruined a whole shoulder and the rib cage was was bloodshot all the way to the diaphragm. The lungs were jello. Went back to my Accubonds after that. Seriously considering the Partitions.