Broken Ambi Safety on 1911

[Greg528iT]

So we have a couple new 1911ers here. One asked about carry and importance of single sided versus Ambi thumb safeties.

One response was.

Tom Selleck has a line in one of the Jesse Stone movies where he is on the shooting range with his deputy after getting shot in his right arm and is practicing shooting with his left arm. "Suit" says suggests he could get an ambi safety on his 1911. Stone (Selleck) says he doesn't like them, saying they are weak, and tend to break.

I saw that movie, I remember that quote. Tom is a gun guy. BUT

Has anyone ever heard of an ambi safety breaking??? Not wives tails, or stories, but actually looked down at a 1911 with a broken ambi safety.

Granted it's a pretty tiny flat of metal. But then again it only has to flip a safety on of off and on most 1911s, the effort is not that great.

I was curious, I've heard the wives tail. I've not actually seen it.

Post pictures if you have them.

 

[dogmush]

I didn't break it, but I did wear out the tongue and groove joint in on of my RIA's to the point it needed to be replaced.

It took about 35,000 rounds.

When I installed an Ambi on my Dan Wesson, I used the newer Wilson BulletProof Ambi safety. I really like that joint design better. It's has zero movement. It was almost a light press fit to install. It's be pretty hard to break that one.

 

[JTQ]

That was my quote above. I've never seen one broken in person, I have a single side safety only, but of course on "the net" you can see or read about it all the time.

Granted it's a pretty tiny flat of metal. But then again it only has to flip a safety on of off and on most 1911s, the effort is not that great.

Of course many may have a difference of opinion on how much effort it takes to move a thumb safety. I've read on "the net" about guys that just have to have a very specific divot in their holster sweat shield to make sure their thumb safety doesn't move. To me that is ludicrous. My thumb safety will move just about any sweat shield out of the way, and I can holster my gun with the thumb safety either on or off and the only thing that is going to move it is my thumb. If a thumb safety moved so easily that my clothes or holster could move it, I'd get my thumb safety fixed.

EDIT to add: Don't forget about the thumbs forward grip. A lefty would be riding the thumb safety and may end up putting quite a bit of pressure on the right side lever.

 

[agtman]

Has anyone ever heard of an ambi safety breaking??? Not wives tails, or stories, but actually looked down at a 1911 with a broken ambi safety.

Yes, they do break.

An ambi-safety broke on another student's 1911 during a tactical training (AR) course I was in two years ago. There were about 30 students in this course and it happened while we were doing transition drills to our sidearms. We fired, maybe, 50-rds max.

Amazingly, no Glocks suffered from a similar malf.

I have heard instructors, who've seen a lot more 1911s in these courses than I have, relate instances in which they saw or encountered a student's ambi safety go t.u. So it does happen.

In contrast, I've never heard of the standard factory thumb safety on a 1911 breaking.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Usually the weak point in the ambi safety isn't the external lever, but the connection method between the two halves. On many of them, the connection is a simple press together joint in the middle of the rod. These tend to work lose and the right side of the safety becomes INOP or falls off the gun. The left side usually still functions when that happens. RIA has a pin on the right side to keep it from coming lose. The Taurus ones in my experience are particularly prone to coming apart. I suggest straight up replacement of them.

 

[Zerodefect]

I've broken 2 Kimber ambi safeties.

 

[Control]

I've never personally had one break. I have had several come loose at the tongue and groove joint. The tongue and groove joint design is week and the tab design that holds the safety's left side paddle under the grip is also weak and does not do a good job of holding the left side on.

I believe it was Jeff Cooper who suggested that left handers should have an ambi safety installed but right handers should stick to the single sided design. That advice seems correct to me.

For lefty shooters, I believe that the folks at Wilson Combat have solved the problem. Their bullet proof ambi safety eliminates the tongue and groove setup and the grip panel tab. As a lefty 1911 shooter, its my favorite.

 

[farscott]

For the ambi safeties that do not have stops, the joint tends to wear from lefty shooters who ride the right-side safety. That is the easiest way to kill the right side: ride the safety the way a right-handed person does.

EGW has a new safety that is supposed to fix this issue. If anyone can, George Smith sure can.

 

[Control]

The extended and grooved hammer pin on the Wilson design also acts as a left side stop.

The EGW safety does look exciting. I can't seem to find any pictures of it dissembled so that I can see what the joint and sleeve look like. The picture on the EGW site shows it fully assembled. If anyone can share a link of the part dissembled I would appreciate it!

 

[TestPilot]

Like I said in another thread,

if it is a concern, then just make it a periodic replacement part.

 

[L-2]

A broken right-side 1911 safety I had.

I replaced it with a single-sided version on my Kimber 5" SIS.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a couple of ambis that are holding up well, but I am right handed and seldom use them except for the occasional W.H.O. string in IDPA.
A southpaw can beat one to junk with regular use.

 

[CDW4ME]

Three letters come to mind...




MIM

 

[wally]

I believe it was Jeff Cooper who suggested that left handers should have an ambi safety installed but right handers should stick to the single sided design. That advice seems correct to me.

Since I may need to shoot my 1911 left handed I want an ambi safety on any gun that can do cocked and locked if at all practical. I do 10-25% of my pistol shooting left handed. I don't ride the safety shooting lefty as if I could use both hands I be shooting right handed so my left handed practice is usually one-handed.

I did have an infant mortality ambi safety failure on my Charles Daly EMS in the first couple of hundred rounds -- as has been pointed out one of the "ears" on the tongue and groove broke so it only functioned to either put it on safe or take it off safe (I've forgot which) but the take home was even if it breaks the right side still functioned normally.

I do ride the safety shooting right handed and the replacement KBI sent me has been fine for 10,000+ rounds.

Edit: E-2's photo is exactly how mine broke.

 

[Control]

Wally, the suggestion that right handers stick to the single sided design does indeed come from Jeff Cooper. He believed that in a pinch the right hand trigger finger could be used to swipe the safety off and on. He even demonstrated the technique in one of the old Gunsite training videos. I don't think Mr. Cooper ever got to see any of the newer designs however so we are left wondering whether he would have changed his opinion or not based on newer designs.

Below is a thread on the 1911 forum with a few great pictures of the new EGW design.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=472358

EGW has done a fine job in improving over the old Colt, Swenson, and King designs with the introduction of a sleeve and inclusion of a hammer pin retention and stop. That said, and in my opinion, Wilson Combat's split shaft and hammer pin retention and stop design is a little better.

 

[Greg528iT]

Thanks guys. Good info.

 

[tark]

I worked for Les Baer for 21 years. I have seen lots of broken ambi safeties. LOTS of them! It doesn't seem to matter who made them, they have a high failure rate compared to just about any other part on the gun.

Yes they DO break. Tom (Jesse) was right.

 

[Tony k]

I'm a lefty. The thumb safety on my Taurus PT1911 broke last year, but on the left side near the rear pin. The gun is about 8 years old, and I practice drawing and thumbing the safety much more than I actually fire it. I expect it to break again in a few years.

I can sent it back to Taurus the next time it breaks. They'll replace it with another MIM part. From reading this thread, it sounds Taurus isn't the only one like this.

In the long run, is it worth it to get a non-MIM safety? Do they break less often?

 

[dogmush]

I'm a lefty. The thumb safety on my Taurus PT1911 broke last year, but on the left side near the rear pin. The gun is about 8 years old, and I practice drawing and thumbing the safety much more than I actually fire it. I expect it to break again in a few years.

I can sent it back to Taurus the next time it breaks. They'll replace it with another MIM part. From reading this thread, it sounds Taurus isn't the only one like this.

In the long run, is it worth it to get a non-MIM safety? Do they break less often?

I think so.

Not just because of the annoyance of shipping every time, but because you can't predict exactly when it'll break. Murphy's Law comes to mind.

The $160 Wilson's safety set's me back isn't all that much compared to the rest of what I spend on (and shoot through) my 1911, and I have a markedly better part.

 

[BlindJustice]

Not an Ambi Safety, S&W 1911 #108282
The stock LH tthumb safety the pin that
goes into the grip safety broke also
the plunger separated. I was shooting +P
Double Tap .45 ACP +P 200 gr. Gold Dot
rated at 1,125 fps. I finished the magazine
actually, then picked the safety and plunger
off the web of my shooting hand and
halted the ragnge session in need of a band aid..

It was replaced with a LH blued Ed Brown Tactical Extended thumb safety.

R-

 

[Winkman822]

I've experienced ambidexterous safety breakage with a Kimber. The replacement was a single sided tactical bullet proof safety from Wilson Combat. That said, I have an ambidexterous safety on my daily carry Wilson Combat and it is shot hard (couple hundred rounds a week) and carried daily. No issues to report since putting the gun into service around 2009.

 

[45_auto]

So we have a couple new 1911ers here. One asked about carry and importance of single sided versus Ambi thumb safeties.

My experience with carrying a 1911 with an ambi safety is that it's just asking for the safety to get knocked off anytime that safety on the exposed side of your holster gets bumped - car seats, people, chairs, briefcases, etc.

I don't have any problem using my trigger finger to drop the single-side safety in wounded shooter drills.

 

[TestPilot]

Post by 45_Auto:
I don't have any problem using my trigger finger to drop the single-side safety in wounded shooter drills.

It is not a question of whether if it CAN be done. It is a question of how fast and secure it can be done.

The problem is that it is physically impossible to be fast as using the thumb to work the lever while the trigger finger is moving toward the trigger.

I very much doubt you'd volunteer to have me judo chop your wrist while you're doing the loose 3 finger grip on your 1911 while you are using the trigger finger to work the lever either.

 

[2wheels]

With a 1911 in a normal strongside holster, I disengage the safety as I draw. If I'm forced to switch hands for whatever reason after that, let's say because I'm wounded, the safety should be off (Murphys law of course applies).

If I'm forced to draw from my strongside with my weak hand and the bad guy is close enough to karate chop me... I may have more worries than whether or not it's super easy for me to disengage the safety.

Either way, I don't see a pressing need for me to go switch all my 1911s safeties out for ambi-safeties just in case.

 

[agtman]

With a 1911 in a normal strong-side holster, I disengage the safety as I draw. If I'm forced to switch hands for whatever reason after that, let's say because I'm wounded, the safety should be off. * * *

This.

Karate chop, Kung fu chop, Steven Seagal Chop, Chop Shop, Chop Suey. It's all irrelevant.

Look, if JMB didn't see fit to put an ambi-safety on his 1911, why should you? 'Cause it looks all tacticool? ... Do Travis and Chris run ambis on their 1911s?

Let's get serious ... 2Wheels is right. During a firefight the safety should be off, all the way to slide-lock. The real safety on a 1911 is keeping your finger OFF the trigger, until the need to fire is indicated.

Now, perhaps, if there's a lull in the fighting and you're changing position (moving) to attain better cover, or to get a more advantageous position relative to the BG, then you engage the safety. But those circumstances don't require an ambi to do it.