Browning 86, 45-70 finally shooting good groups.

[Float Pilot]

This is one of the first of the Browning 1886 (Jap made) in the saddle ring carbine version. So no goofy lawyer safety. But the fake carbine type sights were pretty simple like the prototypes.

So I discovered a couple things.
1. This carbine only likes to shoot 3 shot groups. After three shots the barrel heat makes the group size double or triple. But if you wait for awhile you can shoot another nice three shot group. That is what happens when you have magazine tubes connected to the barrel.
2. It is very picky about the bullet types and weight. Plus the shallow rifling hates cast lead bullets.
But yesterday I stumbled across a load that seems to work just fine, although I will have to drift the sight over a touch to get the windage right on. I was using a 6 O'Clock hold at the bottom of the black. So that means that the rifle with zeroed at 170 yards for point of aim. 4 inch high at 100 yards and 4 inches low at 200 yards.

1,940 fps will work just fine for the 350 grain Hornady Flat Point.

 

[headoftheholler]

Very nice grouping! Most people that don't know any better will tell you that the 45-70 is only good for less than 100 yards. Your target and mine below tell different. Mine was with Buffalo Bore 300 grain through my Marlin guide gun at 100 yards, 2X scout scope. 2350 fps is screaming for a 45-70. The 3rd shot was off a little, but it was my fault.

 

[DMH]

Hope someday I can shot that good. Are you guys resting the rifle on sticks or bags?

David

 

[Float Pilot]

Just tossed a little sand bag over the top of my range tool box and leaned into her.
I used to really be able to shoot, but my eyes have been heading south over the past 10 years or so. Open iron sights like this 1886 has are becoming a real problem.

 

[headoftheholler]

I actually rested mine on a sandbag off the hood of my Ram.

 

[Onmilo]

I use a Williams peep on my Xtra Lightweight
HARD cast lead will shoot well in these rifles, 15:1 is a good start and they need to be sized to the bore.

Try loosening or tightening your barrel band screw & see if that improves groupability.

 

[browningguy]

Very good, that will be a usefull load for hunting and target shooting. I use the Speer 350 gr. FP's in my Browning 1885 High wall, but I'm running them at around 2400 FPS.

 

[Float Pilot]

I tried going up to around 2,075 fps, but the groups became big again. Plus at true iron sight hunting ranges it would just mean a faster bullet exiting on the other side of the critter.
Of course since we just had (and are still having since it snowed again last night) the worst winter in decades, I probably won't hunt anything big this year since the deep snow and the cold killed hundreds if not thousands of Moose and Caribou.

 

[cpt-t]

45/70 Shooting

Float Pilot: Shooting a 45/70 is one of the joys of life for me & my Son. He still likes to load them where they talk to you. But I am getting old and more recoil senative all the time. Our main load is 35 grs of IMR 3031 405 gr RNFP hard cast bullet some where near 1200 to 1300 fps. Very easy to shoot and I can shoot it all day at the Cowboy shoots. We use this load in our Sharps and Marlin Levers and as I said it is very comfortable. Frist time we went Hog Hunting, I packed the wroung Ammo and brought the light stuff and was convinced I had ruint the whole trip because we could not find any of the hot loads we had planed to use. But guess what we never had to chase a one of the Hogs we shot most just DRT. Now they wern`t 500 lbs Hogs but I have never seen a really big Hog while I have been out hunting. I think the largest was right at 300 lbs he is hanging on the wall right next to me as I tupe this. We have used some hot loads and really like thoes leverevolution rounds but they are not as comfortable as the light loads. And I like the long barreled levers more than the short barreled ones. GOOD LUCK TO YOU: ken

 

[Float Pilot]

My old original Winchester Model 1886s both in 45-70 and 45-90 were made in the 1890s and I only push them to black powder or Pyrodex velocities. The 45-90 likes a 320 to 330 grain cast bullet at around 1,500 fps using 85 grains of Goex Cartridge or a case full of Pyrodex.
The shorter barreled 45-70 (it is a short rifle not a carbine) likes 405 grain cast slugs at around 1,200 fps using Pyrodex. It has a pretty pitted and over-sized bore so I tried some Beartooth Wide FNGC which weigh around 520 grains,, but they work with my taper crimp die or Lee Factory crimp die. They shoot much better groups due to their long sides, but I think they are only going 1,090 or 1,100 fps with a case full of Pyrodex Select.

I like the idea of using jacketed bullets for my Browning 86 since there is less likelihood of me mixing a warm load up with the cast lead soft loads I use in my old rifles.

 

[browningguy]

The 2400 fps loads are only for Bronwing 1885's and Ruger No. 1's.

 

[loose noose]

Also the Marlin lever gun Model 1895. Will shoot a 430 grn round at 2400 fps, but the recoil is humungus, to say the least. That's with a good quality recoil pad.

 

[Onmilo]

The Browning lever rifles can take some pretty astounding loads if you can handle them.
I am not going to tell you how far to go with your loading, you're an adult and can figure out when to quit but the rifles are capable of taking loads approaching .458 Magnum in velocity and energy levels.

Word of warning though, the wear factors increase ten fold the higher the pressure and the more rounds fired.

Best to keep loads moderate if you intend to shoot the rifle for the rest of your lifetime.

 

[Float Pilot]

The load I listed here, after trying at least 30 other combinations in this rifle, is just fine the way it is. 1,940 fps for a 350 grain slug (from a 20 inch carbine) is enough whammy for hunting and it won't tear up the gun.

If I think I need something with more whammy, I have a 416 Taylor and a 458 Lott.
Neither of which is really required for anything I hunt.... Although I have carried the 458 when packing and loading meat into the plane out where the brown bears are hanging around.
But generally speaking they do not bother me and I do not bother them.

 

[cpt-t]

45-70 lever guns

Float Pilot; My Son and I are real Marlin fans and we have a few other brands of lever guns, but mostly Marlins. Never had any trouble with any of them to speak of. Being you are from Alaska is a 45-70 really enought rifle to hunt the bears you have up there. I always hoped to to be assigned to Alaska while I was in the Army, to try some of your great Hunting & Fishing, but that didn`t happen. We have Marlins in 45-70, 444, 450 Marlin and I would be hard pressed to say wich one is my favorite, which ever is in my hands at the time, is how I ansewer that question. Would any of these be big enought to hunt the big bears you have up your way. The largest thing I have ever shot is a Hog not quite 300 lbs and I was using light cowboy loads and he was DRT, one shot at about 50 yds. I really like hunting with a old lever gun, make me feel young again, to work the action on a smooth lever gun and they are a joy to carry, on my walks in the woods. GOOD LUCK TO YOU: ken

 

[Float Pilot]

They would work just fine. The craze for huge magnums seems to increase every year when new city folks move up here. Out in the bush villages a 30-06 is usually considered all you need. With proper shot placement.