Browning 45-70, model 1886

[Float Pilot]

It has been awhile since I have taken the Browning 1886 out to shoot.
It is a pre-safety model in the saddle ring carbine version.
The only beef I have with it is the rear sight. They made it a folding type, but the elevation slide does not lock on the ladder. It is most for looks. So it is darn near impossible to get the darn thing zeroed.
The 22 inch barrel seems to like jacketed bullets better than cast lead. And one of these days I will remove that glossy Japanese finish on the stock and replace it with a real linseed oil finish.

Loads:
Bullet: 405 grain jacketed soft point Remington Bulk bullet
Brass: Winchester virgin
Primer: CCI-250 magnum
COL : 2.65 inch, taper crimp
Range: 100 yards, from sand-bags

50.0 grains IMR-3031= 1,660 fps and a 1.0 inch group

54.0 grains IMR-4064= 1,765 fps and a 1.5 inch group

44.0 grains RL-7.......= 1,751 fps and a 1.5 inch group

42.0 grains RL-7.......= 1,675 fps and a 2.0 inch group

38.0 grains IMR-4198= 1,690 fps and a HORRIBLE GROUP

46.0 grains IMR-3031= 1,538 fps and an other horrible group


350 grains Oregon Trail Lazer cast, lubed with no gas check

54.0 grains, Varget= 1,687 fps and a 4.0 inch group.

 

[bobsmith]

My brother has one of those. It's a nice gun. I drilled and tapped the receiver for a Lyman peep sight. Don't know why they never drilled those at the factory. You may not like the look of the factory stock finish but it's a lot more scratch resistant than any oil finish will ever be. We've fired 405 grain loads with 53 grains of 3031 in a Winchester case with Remington 9 1/2 LR primers. the loads are in the 1800 FPS range. You'll learn to hate the carbine butt plate with those loads.

 

[NCsmitty]

You'll learn to hate the carbine butt plate with those loads.

Yes, that was the first thing that I noticed in the pics. I love the rugged design of the '86, and the accuracy potential, but I figured that the butt stock has got to be tough with heavy loads.
Thanks for sharing, Float Pilot.


NCsmitty

 

[bobsmith]

Something I forgot to mention is that the Browning 1886 and the Winchester 1886 EL by MirokU that I have seem to be very short throated. I have a bunch of Speer 400 grain jacketed bullets I like to shoot and the lever will close with feel when the bullets are seated to the front cannelure. Also happens with Lazercast 405's. I bought a throating reamer from Brownells and reamed the throats deeper by about .075-.080" No problems now. In comparison, my 1972 vintage Marlin 1895 is much longer throated and will seemingly swallow just about anything.

 

[Float Pilot]

Due to my location, the steel butt-plate is helped by the fact I am usually wearing a heavy jacket or coat.

Yes, I have loaded some hotter loads, which I was not going to let go public.
I have loaded slugs up over 2,000 fps but they had horrible accuracy. And they kicked the living crap out of my shoulder. ( I have already detached a retina shooting big magnums)

Plus with the heavy bullets, that extra 300-400 fps does not really make a difference on a moose or bear at iron sight ranges. The diameter, weight and bullet construction do all the talking.

At a muzzle velocity of 1,650 fps a 405 grains bullet is still going 1,200 fps at 200 yards.
When going that fast a good bullet will still travel the full length of a moose body. Anything faster and the bullet might come apart, or I will just end up with a faster bullet going through the air on the other side of the moose.

I sight in that load at 150 yards. It is 3.5 inches high at 100yds and 8-9 inches low at 200yds. 100 to 150yds is more practical at my age with open sights. And with our goofy game laws where you have to interview the moose before shooting him.

 

[bobsmith]

Yeah, the detached retina. I've heard of that happening. I've been discussing the issue of heavy recoiling rifles with my brother and friends. Maybe time for us to tame down the loads. We're in our 60's and don't need no detached retinas.

 

[fineredmist]

I don't understand why you want to have a gun that kills on both ends. A .45-70 loaded to BP velocity (1300 - 1350 fps) will do the job with a 350 or 405 hard cast bullet and they are pleasant to shoot. 28 or 29 gr of 5744 in my HighWall (with a curved steel butt plate) is something I enjoy shooting in the warm weather wearing a light shirt. At 70+ I don't want retina or shoulder problems, I just want to enjoy shooting. Bye the way, I would like a dollar for every bison, bear, elk or moose that was dropped with a bp round out of a .45-70.

 

[Float Pilot]

I agree that with 45 caliber -plus size bores, that jumping up the velocity is often a waste of time and shoulder.
In this case the Browning 1886 seems to like velocities in the 1,600 to 1,700 fps range for best accuracy. It does not like Black Powder speeds.

However,,, my old original 1886s , a 45-70 short rifle made in 1891 and a half-magazine long rifle in 45-90 made in 1893, both those like slower black-powder speeds. The old 45-70 pretty much likes any type of cast bullet, while the 45-90 only likes a short 300 grain cast bullet. They had a different rifling twist since the 45-90 was supposedly an Express Cartridge.

 

[StrawHat]

Float Pilot ...They had a different rifling twist since the 45-90 was supposedly an Express Cartridge...

Correct, as built by Winchester, the 45-90 was intended to flatten the trajectory of the 45-70 and by and large it was limited to a 300 to 330 grain bullet.

 

[bobsmith]

I guess that also applies to the .50-110-300. Intended as a high velocity loading but with short bullets for caliber resulting in very poor balistic coefficient.

 

[highlander 5]

Almost any decent load in a 45/70 is gonna bite at both ends. My buddy has a Browning 76 single shot with a courved steel butt plate and it's murderous with anything heavier than factory loads.

 

[Float Pilot]

I guess that also applies to the .50-110-300. Intended as a high velocity loading but with short bullets for caliber resulting in very poor ballistic coefficient.

Yeap, there were two versions of the 50-110 Winchester Center Fire.
The 50-110-300 which some sources claim has a 1 in 60 twist and the 50-110-450 which supposedly might have a 1 in 54 twist rate.
From what have read, they were known for their crappy accuracy. I got to fire two rounds from an 1886 chambered for 50-110. At 75 yards I hit a pie-pan sized gong with one round and have no idea where the other flew off to... It had a shotgun style butt-plate, however I remember that is had a pretty good recoil. Not as bad as a solid butt-plate 405 Win in a Model 1895 Winchester, but pretty darn close.

 

[Onmilo]

FloatPilot the rear sight elevator issue is an easy fix.
Have a machinist mill a flat on one side of the elevator, drill & tap a through hole and install a set screw.
The machinist can turn you a knurled head thumb screw in place of a slotted flush set screw if you want quick adjustment capability.
Lock screws set on both sides of the elevator in place of the quick adjust set screw will keep the elevator level on the slide if you want more precision.HTH

eta: I had one of these Carbines before i got my 1886 Extra Lightweight rifle and that is what I did to mine to keep the elevator in place.
My gun shot comparable to yours, the Japanese make very good barrels!

 

[Float Pilot]

have a Marbles Tang mounted Peep for a 1886 sitting out in my shop. I have been putting off the installation for the last ten years or so, because I think it looks a little odd on a carbine length rifle.

 

[Onmilo]

I had a marbles tang sight on an 1886 takedown with pistol grip, it was extremely uncomfortable to shoot the gun as the sight base would dig into the web of my hand.

I use a Lyman receiver sight on my lightweight and if you can find an old bolt peep, even better!

 

[Float Pilot]

A bolt peep would be very sexy...
I have not seen one of those in years.
I like your set screw idea. I can't figure out why Browning did not bother to make a little slider lock. These never were cheap rifles, so why skimp and make a slider that flopped around?
I have even thought about just installing a buckhorn or semi-buckhorn rear sight with an elevation step.

12-14 years ago I was looking for a full length Browning 86 when a buddy of mine sold me this one dirt cheap.

 

[Onmilo]

Yeah I fall into 1886 deals from time to time & never lost money selling one.

 

[StrawHat]

highlander ...Almost any decent load in a 45/70 is gonna bite at both ends...

Not really, the black powder loads offer adequate penetration, hit like frieght trains and offer soft recoil. I load the 405 grain and 500 grain bullets and shoot them from the Trapdoor, which apparently is known for it's ferocious recoil.

The problem most have is they don't know how to shoot from any position that doesn't include a bench. Use a position that allows your body to absorsb some of the recoil impulse and it is another type of shooting altogether. I find offhand, kneeling and sitting (in that order) to be most effective in the field.

 

[bobsmith]

A bolt peep would be very sexy...
I have not seen one of those in years.

Bolt peeps were fairly common in Winchester 71's. If you find one and wish to have it installed on your rifle, your bolt would have to be milled for it. But yes, very cool.

 

[Onmilo]

If a machinist can mill flats on the elevator, he can mill a bolt for the peep sight.
I come across them from time to time in junk sales of gun parts, never bought one when I did and will do so the next time! :banghead:

 

[bobsmith]

Out of curiousity, I did a search for "winchester bolt peep" and found this:
http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/Winchester_71boltpeep.htm
I remember Wisners in Chehalis Wa. They made a lot of repro Winchester parts.
FWIW