Browning Hi Power, Discontinued

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Danoobie said:
IMO, FN should feel honored; inasmuch as so much has been borrowed from the original design of the Hi-Power by so many contemporary models. A large segment of the competition is pistols like the CZ75, for instance.
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The Hi-Power was/IS a good, original design. Nearly all modern semi-autos use the Browning Locked-Breech Short-Recoil design, but that was a design feature developed by JMB years before he was hired to work on the Hi-Power.

FN was the first gun maker to use double-stack mags in a high-production gun, but it It took another 35-40 years before other gun makers got on that band wagon. (I suspect that change was probably more due to Glock's use of hi-cap mags in the Glock 17 than FN's use of hi-cap mags in the Hi-Power.)

The Hi-Power, internally, has virtually NOTHING in common with the CZ-75 -- except double-stack mags; the 75 just looks a bit like the Hi-Power.
 
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Mizar: Can we refrain from putting Browning Hi-Power and Glock in the same sentence, please?
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I like to think JMB would view the Glock favorably.
-it uses a Browning type recoil operated locked breech system.
-his 1911 with 58 parts vs Glocks 34?............I think he would truly be impressed.
-I also think JMB would approve of both the polymer frame and the flat black finish on a service firearm.
 
dogtown tom said:
I like to think JMB would view the Glock favorably.
-it uses a Browning type recoil operated locked breech system.
-his 1911 with 58 parts vs Glocks 34?............I think he would truly be impressed.
-I also think JMB would approve of both the polymer frame and the flat black finish on a service firearm.
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Why does everyone talk about the Browning Hi Power as if JMB designed it. He did not. The gun we shoot today and the last gun JMB designed are not the same. Look at the pic in my avatar. Is that the gun you shoot?

Saive took JMBs design and made the BHP. FN did not name the Hi Power after JMB because he designed it. They named
it after him for 2 reasons IMHO. First because at the time the Browning name sold guns. Each gun bearing his name was considered a leap forward in technology. The second part is that FN referred to JMB as "The Master". They named the pistol out of respect. He was beloved by FN Herstal. They gave him a office at FN plant at Liege even though he was not an employee.

It is funny that the marketing part still works 75+ years because clearly most people today still thinks it is a JMB design.
 
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Mizar said:
Can you please take a picture of those grips? Except for the Navidrex, which are too thin for my taste (and hands), I could not find any micarta/G10 Spegel-ish type grips - I finally settled for the checkered Pachmayr G10, that are basically a ripoff of VZs and Nighthawks.
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I'll try to get a couple of snaphots on here later this afternoon.
 
Mizar said:
Can you please take a picture of those grips? Except for the Navidrex, which are too thin for my taste (and hands), I could not find any micarta/G10 Spegel-ish type grips - I finally settled for the checkered Pachmayr G10, that are basically a ripoff of VZs and Nighthawks.
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Call Spegel he makes delrin grips but I believe only on special orders.
 
I already bought myself a pair of cheap Pachmayr G10 and I'm quite satisfied with them. I was asking for pictures just to drool over and because I admire Ted Yost's work.
 
I like to think JMB would view the Glock favorably.
-it uses a Browning type recoil operated locked breech system.
-his 1911 with 58 parts vs Glocks 34?............I think he would truly be impressed.
-I also think JMB would approve of both the polymer frame and the flat black finish on a service firearm.
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I agree completely.
 
Ted Yost grips. They were pale gray/green but wax, lube, protectant etc darken them up.
 

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WVsig said:
Why does everyone talk about the Browning Hi Power as if JMB designed it. He did not. The gun we shoot today and the last gun JMB designed are not the same. Look at the pic in my avatar. Is that the gun you shoot?
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Uhhh............nothing in my post even remotely suggests that JMB "designed" the Hi Power. :scrutiny:
If it's the Browning vs Glock comparison you find objectionable...........well bless your heart. In fact, the only comparison is to a pistol that JMB DID design....the 1911.

The point of my post was how JMB might have viewed Glocks. And for what it's worth, I'm sure Saive would have had the same opinion as well.



Saive took JMBs design and made the BHP. FN did not name the Hi Power after JMB because he designed it. They named
it after him for 2 reasons IMHO. First because at the time the Browning name sold guns. Each gun bearing his name was considered a leap forward in technology. The second part is that FN referred to JMB as "The Master". They named the pistol out of respect. He was beloved by FN Herstal. They gave him a office at FN plant at Liege even though he was not an employee.
It is funny that the marketing part still works 75+ years because clearly most people today still thinks it is a JMB design.
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No kidding.
I've been a Hi Power collector since the early eighties and have read the same FN, Browning and Hi Power books as you.
 
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I6turbo said:
If this one is an indication, surplus guns in conditions that were bringing about $475 - $500 a year ago are up considerably. :)
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/674954269

Then again, they still slip through at the "old" prices, or even bargains...
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/667793335
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/649887976 < I wish I'd seen this one in time and run it up a bit further to see if I could have gotten it.
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It has always been this way. I have bought most of my BHPs 12+ over the years used. Some for as little as $450 NIB when others were paying $800 NIB or $650 used. In general I have always believed people over paid for BHPs. Prices are spiking a little bit but I believe that you will see the prices come back down with 6-12 months to what they were before they were declared discontinued. Unless you are getting a good clean gun for $500-$600 depending on configuration now is not the time to buy. IMHO
 
WVsig said:
It has always been this way. I have bought most of my BHPs 12+ over the years used. Some for as little as $450 NIB when others were paying $800 NIB or $650 used. In general I have always believed people over paid for BHPs. Prices are spiking a little bit but I believe that you will see the prices come back down with 6-12 months to what they were before they were declared discontinued. Unless you are getting a good clean gun for $500-$600 depending on configuration now is not the time to buy. IMHO
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I saw a new BHP 9mm today for $ 960. Would that not be a very good buy considering that they apparently will be discontinued and new ones are hard to find?
 
98bluewave said:
I saw a new BHP 9mm today for $ 960. Would that not be a very good buy considering that they apparently will be discontinued and new ones are hard to find?
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You need to read this entire discussion, starting with the first comment on the first page, and make your own decision. It's all guesswork. You'll read all of the arguments for either YES or NO. I will say, however, that if you buy a new one for $960 and expect the value to go up faster than inflation (i.e., it'll get you more than you paid for it in buying power over the long term), you'll likely be disappointed.
 
98,

Do consider Walt's response carefully. I would consider a new BHP not for investment purposes, but because for $960 you'd have a brand spanking new BHP that's all yours. You, and only you can decide if that's worth the cash.

Happy Shooting,
 
Walt Sherrill said:
You need to read this entire discussion, starting with the first comment on the first page, and make your own decision. It's all guesswork. You'll read all of the arguments for either YES or NO. I will say, however, that if you buy a new one for $960 and expect the value to go up faster than inflation (i.e., it'll get you more than you paid for it in buying power over the long term), you'll likely be disappointed.
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I disagree. I do not foresee the value of the BHP MKIII to increase unless you intend to never shoot the gun and leave it as a collectible safe queen. If it is a production gun left in pristine condition it will bring a premium in the future as the "Last of the Hi Powers" to a collector one day.

If however you intend to shoot the gun and I doubt it will beat inflation because there are just too many in the market place. There is surplus all over the world. There are over 75 years worth of commercial guns as well. I do not have a crystal ball but have watched the BHP market for many years and there are only a few version of the BHP that beat inflation.
 
I would really like to know who came up with the idea that investing in "run of the mill" guns is a profitable thing to do? And I'm not talking about 19 century Purdey side-by-side shotgun, in pristine condition, made to order by the Sultan of Oman...
 
Walt Sherrill said:
You need to read this entire discussion, starting with the first comment on the first page, and make your own decision. It's all guesswork. You'll read all of the arguments for either YES or NO. I will say, however, that if you buy a new one for $960 and expect the value to go up faster than inflation (i.e., it'll get you more than you paid for it in buying power over the long term), you'll likely be disappointed.
WVSig said:
I disagree. I do not foresee the value of the BHP MKIII to increase unless you intend to never shoot the gun and leave it as a collectible safe queen. If it is a production gun left in pristine condition it will bring a premium in the future as the "Last of the Hi Powers" to a collector one day.
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You and I may be agreeing, but just saying it differently. (I didn't really address pristine guns kept unfired, as the cited comment was meant to be a brief summary.)

That said, I suspect that if there is a premium to be had it won't be the "Last of the Hi-Powers" but one of the earlier models in a similarly pristine condition with all the necessary extras. Collectors are typically trying to fill holes in their collections, and I doubt that these last models - Standards and MK III - are going to fill many holes. The folks I know who HAVE done well with rare or collectible guns, got them from prior owners at much lower prices because the seller didn't know what he or she was selling. A few of these guns were standard models, but almost none were purchased new by the folks who did well with later sales.

I wouldn't be surprised it there is a short-term spike in prices, and a number of us average joes might jump into the fray expecting to see the price rise continue. I think those who do so will be disappointed -- but they'll still end up with a pretty good gun that will eventually be taken to the range, be used for home defense, or simply get stuck in the safe because they think it'll eventually be very valuable.
 
johnmcl said:
98,

Do consider Walt's response carefully. I would consider a new BHP not for investment purposes, but because for $960 you'd have a brand spanking new BHP that's all yours. You, and only you can decide if that's worth the cash.

Happy Shooting,
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If I didn't already have one, I'd pay $960 for a brand new High Power.
 
My BHP clone is a Kareen. Israeli, I believe, but don't really know much about it. Price was right, so it's mine now.
 

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rondog said:
My BHP clone is a Kareen. Israeli, I believe, but don't really know much about it. Price was right, so it's mine now.
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index.php


I believe that is a FEG parts gun assembled by Kareen in Israeli. Early on Kareen IIRC bought parts from FEG and assembled the pistols. They are true clones unlike some of the later Kareens.
 
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