phonesysphonesys
Member
Has anyone had any experience with Buffalo Bore .44 mag ammo? I am planning a trip to Yellowstone this fall. I had looked at there all copper round but it seemed to heavy a Mt. gun
Buffalo Bore ammo
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I would go with the DG line for the .44 Mag. It’s a 265 grain LeHigh solid that will be your huckleberry for bear production.
I think their heavy for caliber hard cast ammo goes a long way toward making less powerful rounds like 9mm, 357 mag, 40, 45, and 10mm a more viable option for large predator protection. If you're carrying a 44 magnum I don't think you need exotic ammo.
But if you are staking your life on a bullet, you would be much better served by a monolithic solid than a cast bullet. I’ve experienced way to many failures to consider them reliable.
Sneakshot92
Member
@MaxP I'm not sure of exactly how well versed you are in reloading, but I've considered attempting to get close to that load with my dad's Redhawk. Although i prefer something in the neighborhood of 300 gr hard cast for (black) bear protection loads.
5 or 6 years back my uncle was lucky enough to harvest a black bear that weighed in at 425lbs field dressed. Needless to say my old Taurus 66 with stout 158gr xtp handloads felt inadequate as a backup. I lent it to him with 100 of those loads to get a bit familiar. He told me later on after realizing how big that bear really was he'd about shat hisself knowing that 357 was all he had for up close and personal.. Guess that's the risk you take when you chose a muzzleloader as your main bear gun.
DocRock
member
Max, when you have had cast lead failures, have they been fragmentation events? Blown up on bone?
I'm curious because I fully support the view that on very large heavy boned game, a monolithic solid is the safer bet. I am generally not sold on "hard cast", i.e. linotype and harder, for any game. My experience is minimal expansion, and fragmentation, as opposed to a somewhat softer lead which seems to hold together better, but may not give one the penetration needed on big heavy boned game. But I believe you have a good deal of experience with big and heavy? Appreciate your observations.
Very well versed, but in many instances, the convenience of buying a high-quality, accurate load trumps the time necessary to develop loads. When that particular DG load (for the .44 Mag) came into being, that 265 grain LeHigh bullet wasn’t available to the public as a component. I believe it is now however. Yes, it would be cheaper to roll your own in this instance.
I’ve had them distort to the point that they don’t track well (not straight and not deep), and I’ve had them fragment, which also arrests forward motion. They don’t do well on heavy bone, not something I would consider an asset for bear protection. The mono solid just removes that bullet failure factor from the equation. I prefer stacking the deck in my favor whenever possible.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The DG load is a good one but knowing the velocity they run and the fact that they've cracked some model 69 cylinders, I would probably use something else in the MG. If you handload, it would be better to load that particular bullet using Lehigh data, which gets it around 1100-1200fps. That said, I would not hesitate to use a cast bullet on anything in North America. You're more likely to be assaulted by an antifa protester than a grizzly. Not to mention that if you shoot a grizzly in Yellowstone or anywhere else in the lower 48, you better have a good lawyer.
The Lehigh 265gr was available as a component long before Buffalo Bore loaded it.
The Lehigh 265gr was available as a component long before Buffalo Bore loaded it.
It was prototype bullet that actually wasn’t produced until BB agreed to load it. I have some of them from that time period and have the emails with LeHigh (with Dave Fricke and Mike Cyrus) to back my claim. I have an email dated August 16, 2018 where Mike told me he had about 200 pieces of the 265 grain prototype bullets for testing. In fact, they expanded their line of flat-nosed solids because BB was going to load the DG line of ammunition using their bullets.
Your mountain gun should have no issues with that load. My Lew Horton 29 likes that load. Keep in mind that you won’t be feeding it a steady diet if those loads if you are concerned. Since you specified Yellowstone, I assumed the concern wasn’t black bear.
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BigBlue 94
Member
A few claw marks would help his cause! Lol
I saw something the other day that said a Lehigh bullet was a speer bullet. Not sure on what that implies though or how much truth it carries.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
As I said, the Lehigh was readily available long before Buffalo Bore loaded it. I know, I ordered two boxes of every size they had. The only thing they have now they didn't have then is the 10mm version.
It's definitley not a Speer bullet. They're produced of solid copper on a CNC lathe.
It's definitley not a Speer bullet. They're produced of solid copper on a CNC lathe.
Their WFN, as they refer to it, was only available in .452 and .475 when negotiations began between LeHigh and Buffalo Bore in 2018. Only after the agreement were the other bullets produced, tested and made available as components. Their “Phillips” head solid bullets were available in all of the major handgun calibers, and that was what they were pushing when I cooked this up between them.
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BigBlue 94
Member
Oh im aware of its construction. I think it was on midway on a box of Underwood 50B. Showed and said LeHigh extreme penetrator but in the notes said it was a speer bullet. Struck me as odd!
I recently picked up a couple boxes each of Underwood hardcast 10mm and 44mag. I find the discussion of the hardcast lead above intriguing.
shoebox1.1
Member
phonesysphonesys
Member
Thanks for the input. I ordered the Keith hard cast 158 gr low recoil. I hope I did not make a mistake. I felt the lighter recoil would give a better chance at a repeat shot. At 80 years I don't handle recoil very well. I might order the monolithic bullet also. Don't know how they would recoil.
Chances are we wont see any bears up close but this time of the year they get active. We have a black bear that likes to swing by my place but he is not a problem yetplus I have a rifle close by.
Chances are we wont see any bears up close but this time of the year they get active. We have a black bear that likes to swing by my place but he is not a problem yetplus I have a rifle close by.
What happened to the Mountain Gun?
WisBorn
Contributing Member
@MaxP thanks for the Buffalo Bore DG recommendation. Looks like a good option.
I do like how BB recommends and tests their loads in different revolvers of different barrel lengths. And full disclosure of guns not to use them in.
Loads that are good for 2" pocket guns up to the big hunting revolvers.
Thanks for your help.
I do like how BB recommends and tests their loads in different revolvers of different barrel lengths. And full disclosure of guns not to use them in.
Loads that are good for 2" pocket guns up to the big hunting revolvers.
Thanks for your help.
A couple years back I spent 2 weeks at Yellowstone. One week doing the tourest stuff and the second exploring the more remote parts. I saw 1 single bear the whole trip and it was more than 100 yards away hauling butt in the oposite direction.
The real site was the half dozen idots hopping the fence running after the bear as fast as they could with their cameras and cell phones waving wildly in their hands! ...I was rooting for the bear to turn around and take advantage of the free lunch being delivered to him.
The bisen walking down the road between stopped cars as everyone was staring in amazement as the bisel passed within 6 inches of our cars was a sight I will never forget. It could snap a human in half with one hoof... but it acted like it was the only thing on the entire road... ignored all the cars completely. Seeing that bisen up close made me wonder if it would even notice being hit by a .44 bullet.
The real site was the half dozen idots hopping the fence running after the bear as fast as they could with their cameras and cell phones waving wildly in their hands! ...I was rooting for the bear to turn around and take advantage of the free lunch being delivered to him.
The bisen walking down the road between stopped cars as everyone was staring in amazement as the bisel passed within 6 inches of our cars was a sight I will never forget. It could snap a human in half with one hoof... but it acted like it was the only thing on the entire road... ignored all the cars completely. Seeing that bisen up close made me wonder if it would even notice being hit by a .44 bullet.
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.308 Norma
Member
Yep, a few claw marks might help, but they probably wouldn’t be necessary in court - because if you’re attacked by a grizzly (or more likely, attacked by a bison) in Yellowstone, the chances are there’s going to be a dozen or more witnesses to the attack. And several of the witnesses will be using cell phones to record the event. In my experience in and around Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks, the better question about what kind of ammo to carry in your handgun in case of a large animal attack would probably be, “What ammo for a large animal attack when you have a human audience?”
ECVMatt
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I just got back from Yellowstone a couple of weeks ago and it is exceptional right now. There is about 1/4 the normal traffic and the animals were everywhere. We saw tons of elk, bison, deer, and pronghorn. We saw one grizzly and four wolves. The last time I went to Yellowstone I took my 69, this time I took my Glock 30SF. I found it was much easier for CCW on the rest of the trip and I never felt like I need more in the park. I will gladly let the "Selfie" crowd get eaten, attacked, and gored. A bit of common sense, some space, and my .45 kept my family more than protected. I think you will find the load you selected more than enough.
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phonesysphonesys
Member
Buffalo Bore has the fastest turn around. I wound up getting the 255 gr hard cast after changing my order. Ammo was here in 3 days. They are some wicked looking bullets. Not expecting any problems. If nothing else they will come in handy on my elk hunt.
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