Building a Legend....
- Thread starter LoonWulf
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Below is off topic
Have you looked into the .358 Yeti numbers. It seems too good to be true. They are stating 180gr @ 2,600fps from a 16" barrel. Would like more information on the bolt they are using for that much horsepower in an AR15. That's outside a 16" .308Win capabilities. I'm thinking they do not fully grasp bolt thrust and are paying more attention to pressures, I would think bolt lugs would be failing on it with a steady diet of that round.
Curious, if anyone on here has a 358 Yeti? Sorry not trying to hijack your thread @LoonWulf but this rash of .35 caliber wildcats has me itching
.
Have you looked into the .358 Yeti numbers. It seems too good to be true. They are stating 180gr @ 2,600fps from a 16" barrel. Would like more information on the bolt they are using for that much horsepower in an AR15. That's outside a 16" .308Win capabilities. I'm thinking they do not fully grasp bolt thrust and are paying more attention to pressures, I would think bolt lugs would be failing on it with a steady diet of that round.
Curious, if anyone on here has a 358 Yeti? Sorry not trying to hijack your thread @LoonWulf but this rash of .35 caliber wildcats has me itching
.
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someguy2800
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I've never shot the 180 speer's in my 357 maximum, but I do shoot alot of 180 grain XTP's. I can get about 2100-2200 or so seated long in a 13" barrel. I would expect similar results from the legend given the length and extra capacity. Unfortunately the XTP's pretty much pancake at that velocity so I download them to about 1900-2000 fps.
someguy2800
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I have a 358 yeti upper that I got a month ago. 2600 I would say is a bit of a stretch though it is possible. There is only one powder that will reach that speed but it gave terrible accuracy for me. 2500 with a 180 is very doable with several powders. My hunting load I worked up for it does just over 2500. I have about 350 rounds through it now and I'm happy with it.
The bolt and the barrel extension are different than a standard AR15. The lugs are larger diameter and a stronger shape which is how they are able to get the performance out of it.
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Below is off topic didn’t want to distract.
[QUOTE="someguy2800, post: 11289287, member: 233956"]I have a 358 yeti upper that I got a month ago. 2600 I would say is a bit of a stretch though it is possible. There is only one powder that will reach that speed but it gave terrible accuracy for me. 2500 with a 180 is very doable with several powders. My hunting load I worked up for it does just over 2500. I have about 350 rounds through it now and I'm happy with it.
The bolt and the barrel extension are different than a standard AR15. The lugs are larger diameter and a stronger shape which is how they are able to get the performance out of it.[/QUOTE]
180gr @ 2500 has my interest coming from you. Where does one buy this barrel and bolt? Does it take a special upper receiver or standard affair? Maybe we should take this to PM so not to clutter @LoonWulf thread.
[QUOTE="someguy2800, post: 11289287, member: 233956"]I have a 358 yeti upper that I got a month ago. 2600 I would say is a bit of a stretch though it is possible. There is only one powder that will reach that speed but it gave terrible accuracy for me. 2500 with a 180 is very doable with several powders. My hunting load I worked up for it does just over 2500. I have about 350 rounds through it now and I'm happy with it.
The bolt and the barrel extension are different than a standard AR15. The lugs are larger diameter and a stronger shape which is how they are able to get the performance out of it.[/QUOTE]
180gr @ 2500 has my interest coming from you. Where does one buy this barrel and bolt? Does it take a special upper receiver or standard affair? Maybe we should take this to PM so not to clutter @LoonWulf thread.
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someguy2800
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It is available from mad dog weapons systems. Standard upper and everything else.
Troops,
- Running QL for a LEGEND w/ a 24" barrel (in my dreams),
- 180gr Speer seated as far out as magazine will allow (even though the throat might not) for powder volume,
- 55,000psi top end (which we know QL will be a bit squidgy with being a straightwall). . .
I'm still having a hard time breaking 2,450 with any powder not exceeding 110% fill.
- Running QL for a LEGEND w/ a 24" barrel (in my dreams),
- 180gr Speer seated as far out as magazine will allow (even though the throat might not) for powder volume,
- 55,000psi top end (which we know QL will be a bit squidgy with being a straightwall). . .
I'm still having a hard time breaking 2,450 with any powder not exceeding 110% fill.
someguy2800
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If that was directed at me, we were having a side discussion about 358 yeti, not 350 legend.
Varminterror
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There’s WAY more bore resistance on the 180 XTP’s than the 180 Speer HotCor. Hell, I get greater pressure signs with 158 XTP’s than the 180 Hotcor.
The “rifle type” bullets I expect to be coming out for the .350 Legend would likely be in that same class as the 180 Hotcor and 180 SSP-SP we’ve been shooting - long ogives with shorter bearing surfaces, so higher speeds with lower bore resistance, getting more out of the case.
MUCH OF THE BELOW DATA IS EITHER ABOVE BOOK MAXIMUMS, OR WILDCATTED LOAD DATA FOR WHICH NO BOOK DATA EXISTS. THIS DATA IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION ONLY, AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE INSTRUCTIONAL FOR USE BY OTHERS. MY HANDS, MY LIFE, MY FIREARMS, AND MY LOADS ARE MY RESPONSIBILITY, I RECOMMEND AGAINST ANYONE ELSE USING THE BELOW DATA FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES, AND NEITHER I NOR THE HIGH ROAD FORUM ASSUME LIABILITY FOR IRRESPONSIBLE PARTIES IMPROPER USE OF THIS INFORMATION.
I get flat and cratered primers with 23.0grn H110 under the 158XTP, bad case thrust, hanging cylinder, and sticky extraction at 24.0, and only reach ~1830fps. 23.0 also gets sticky at 1780fps with a 180XTP (honestly can’t recall which cannelure was used for this data, I’d assume the longer of the two - COAL was 1.700”). Alternatively, I have no issues at all with 23.0grn H110 under the 180 HotCor at 1760fps - round primers, no cratering, no cylinder drag, no stick. I haven’t touched one off that hot, but I can get 27.5 grn under the HotCor without compressing, but they start cratering over 25.5grn and uncomfortable flat and sticky by 26.0 which is where I’m running in that upper 1900-2000fps ballpark.
As you mention - the 180’s really aren’t made to run into stuff at high speeds. The 158-Flat Point is designed for higher impact velocities than the standard 158 and 180, but still, not for the speeds we’re talking about in a long .357max, B&D, Legend.
I made a spreadsheet cataloging the available bullets at the time when I built my first B&D Mag. I called manufacturers for expansion specifications for over 2 dozen bullets, culling down to about 20 I thought might make sense. My specifications at the time were muzzle velocity 2000-2100fps and impact velocity 1500-2000fps. The Swift 158 A-Frame and Barnes 140 XPB had the same expectation - worst case scenario, the tip sheds and the shank penetrates like an FMJ, which I do consider acceptable. Speer claimed ONLY the Bonded Deep Curl 158 and 170 would be suitable in their revolver bullets (none of the JHP’s) and the 180 HotCor would be suitable. Hornady wasn’t laying many bets, said the 125 and 158 XTP-FP and the (discontinued) 180 SSP-SP were the only ones they thought would suit for deer, the 158 & 180 probably surviving for coyotes. Sierra backed their 125 and 158 SportMaster JSP and JHC for coyotes, but not for deer. Nosler said they didn’t have anything suitable, and the Sporting Handgun 158 would over-expand at anything over 1500fps impact velocity.
In the end, I settled on the 180 HotCor as meeting my needs, with options for about 10 other pistol bullets which could be usable. The Legend will likely be a BIT too hot for most of these bullets still, since I’d guess it’ll get a 158 WAY up over 2200fps. But it’s getting into the lower speed end of rifle bullets, where a few more options open up.
someguy2800
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The two best bullets I have found besides the discontinued 180 SSP bullet was the 180 XTP and 158 speer JSP. I tried several others including the speer deep curl and sierra 170 JHC but they both came unglued.
158 sierra JSP at 2000 fps muzzle velocity. One was at 15 yards and the other at 100. I can drive it to 2300+ fps with good accuracy but its already a bit too fast at 2000 for expansion if you ask me.
180 XTP at 1800 fps. One was at 15 yards and the other at 100.
180 XTP at 2000 fps turns psychopath. This is 24 grains of H110 by the way.
I never tested the 180 speer as they were always out of stock at the time I was working up loads. I would imagine it could be driven quite a bit faster just on increased case capacity alone.
Gordon
Member
The only reason I am a bit interested in the .350 Legend is if it is possible to have near .35 Remington performance in a 14"+brake or 16" barreled AR. My favorite SP-2 class game rifle for under 300 yards shooting is an 18" barreled .35 Remington 600 carbine. I shoot hot loads in it (not for levers) at 2600+- FPS with the 180 Speer hot core . I get sub MOA accuracy (which is more than the 1-4 Leupold can support) to 300 yards with it and it weighs about 6.5 Pounds scoped. If close to those parameters are met in the .350 Legend then it would be a Semi auto bolt of lightning from the grim reaper like my .35Rem is to same range and game . The 180 Speer Hot core is devastating up to almost 300 yards , it doesn't blow up at 75 yards either . Relatively light recoil too.
someguy2800
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The 350 legend will leave you wanting, but as we were discussing a 358 yeti can get there. My 16" gets over 2500 pretty easily. Others have gotten 2600 with different powder than me.
https://www.maddogweapons.com/358-yeti.html
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It doesn't seem like the 350 Legend is going to get there, seems like 180's are going to be going around 2,000 fps at best based off @LoonWulf 's numbers. His factory offerings velocity for 180's were 1,900 over his chrono, that's a far cry from 2,600fps. Or am I missing something. Like I said earlier I will await his reloading numbers, if @LoonWulf would put down everything else he has going on and get to the reloading bench.
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Agreed, at least from what I've been reading.
Stop typing small, its distracting
So some of the legend bulets ARE available to reloaders. The 180Power Points might be interesting to you guy, but they are .355s i believe. Hornady also has a 170 spire point available. I want to mess with Troys .358s before ordering other stuff just so i have a base line.
So some of the legend bulets ARE available to reloaders. The 180Power Points might be interesting to you guy, but they are .355s i believe. Hornady also has a 170 spire point available. I want to mess with Troys .358s before ordering other stuff just so i have a base line.
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Stop typing small, its distracting
.
I didn’t want to add any confusion between the Legend and the Yeti or was it the Legend of the Yeti.
I've been hearing that one for quite some time lol.
so as were discussing in the other legend thread, MY gun is tight with .358 bullets.
you can see the case bulging slightly on the center one. the far right is a fired case with a .358 dia bullet in it. plenty of neck tension.
you can see the case bulging slightly on the center one. the far right is a fired case with a .358 dia bullet in it. plenty of neck tension.
troy fairweather
Member
what's the neck thickness, that 220 looks mean lol.so as were discussing in the other legend thread, MY gun is tight with .358 bullets.
you can see the case bulging slightly on the center one. the far right is a fired case with a .358 dia bullet in it. plenty of neck tension.
sorry didn't see this. I'll check, I need to order some starlings brass also all I got right is are Winchester once fired.
Round and round we go, where well stop....yeah....
couple new iterations.
The brakes effective, but too bloody loud. It didnt really make the gun super easy to blaze away with anyway, which is all a breaks really for on something like this.
So off it came.
Made a new wider but shorter charging handle from an old bow sight light
body.
Took the scope off and put my debadged TRS-25 on a low riser on. The scope can be slid back in and comes back on line pretty close.
I also filled the badger head and some writing in blood red.
couple new iterations.
The brakes effective, but too bloody loud. It didnt really make the gun super easy to blaze away with anyway, which is all a breaks really for on something like this.
So off it came.
Made a new wider but shorter charging handle from an old bow sight light
body.
Took the scope off and put my debadged TRS-25 on a low riser on. The scope can be slid back in and comes back on line pretty close.
I also filled the badger head and some writing in blood red.
none at all with 40rnds of factory ammo I've shot.
I've had issues with rounds chambering on my reloads, and the short flat 147xtps I'm shooting try to hang up sometimes.
I'm length pretty sure the Winchester brass I'm using is a little thick.
All cases were full length sized and cases trimmed to .005 below spec since that was my shortest case.
bullets are seated well off the lands, and the crimp is just heavy enough to take the flare out and turn the lip of the case back down to smooth out the transition.
The bullets hanging up is just a shape issue. the 147fmjs go in like butter....till the case gets stuck.
Anyway Im going to order some starline brass, and legend specific softpoints tonight.
I'm thinking I should be able to get 21-2200fps with the 180s....could be wrong tho.
I'll say this about shooting the thing, it's a snappy little sob sans brake. I'll probably add an adjustable gas block and see if I can smooth out the recoil impulse a little.
I've had issues with rounds chambering on my reloads, and the short flat 147xtps I'm shooting try to hang up sometimes.
I'm length pretty sure the Winchester brass I'm using is a little thick.
All cases were full length sized and cases trimmed to .005 below spec since that was my shortest case.
bullets are seated well off the lands, and the crimp is just heavy enough to take the flare out and turn the lip of the case back down to smooth out the transition.
The bullets hanging up is just a shape issue. the 147fmjs go in like butter....till the case gets stuck.
Anyway Im going to order some starline brass, and legend specific softpoints tonight.
I'm thinking I should be able to get 21-2200fps with the 180s....could be wrong tho.
I'll say this about shooting the thing, it's a snappy little sob sans brake. I'll probably add an adjustable gas block and see if I can smooth out the recoil impulse a little.
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