Building a rifle of a SMLE action

[Jenrick]

Does anyone here have any experience building (or having) a rifle built off of an SMLE action? I'm thinking about taking a donor SMLE (easily found for cheap) and building it into a long action F-class style rifle in .303 British.

Why you might ask? Why not, would be my answer

-Jenrick

 

[Old Dog Man]

F Class rifle on a Lee Endfield?

I wouldn't consider that rifle because of the 2 piece stock, not for shooting F calls comp. there are better choices. Al

 

[303tom]

I have one of these...............

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/

 

[Slamfire]

building it into a long action F-class style rifle in .303 British.

The Lee Enfield is a particularly weak action, one that now the British NRA is recommending that it not be shot in the rain.

These recommendations are for the stronger No 4 actions, I must assume the weaker No 1 action has greater issues in the rain.


http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20339

NRA Safety Notice re No 4 7.62mm Conversions
This is the current stance of the NRA safety warning which first appeared in the Summer NRA Journal:


Safety Notice
Enfield No 4 Rifle Conversions to 7.62mm

A safety warning concerning the use of Enfield No 4 Rifle actions converted to 7.62mm was published in the Summer Journal.

After further consideration of all factors influencing safety of these conversions and consultation with the Birmingham Proof Master, the following advice must be adhered to in respect of the use of Enfield No 4 conversions:

• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles converted to 7.62mm currently proofed to 19 tons per square inch are strongly advised to have them re-proofed to the current CIP standard (requiring a minimum mean proof pressure of 5190 bar) which allows the use of CIP approved ammunition with a Maximum Average Working Pressure (MAWP) of 4150 Bar.
• Conversions retaining their original Enfield barrel or a replacement barrel as manufactured by RSAF Enfield are safe to use with commercial CIP approved ammunition, which complies with a MAWP of 4150 bar, loaded with any weight of bullet, providing they carry a valid proof mark, and are still in the same condition as when submitted for proof.
• Conversions fitted with any other make of barrel (such as Ferlach, Maddco, Krieger etc) should be checked by a competent gunsmith to determine the throat diameter of the chamber/barrel fitted before use.
• Conversions where the throat diameter is less than the CIP specification of 0.311” but not smaller than 0.3085” must not be used with ammunition which exceeds 3650 Bar MAWP when fired in a SAAMI/CIP pressure barrel.
• Conversions which have been checked and found to comply with Rule 150 may safely be used with any ammunition supplied by the NRA including the 155 grain Radway Green Cartridge, 155 grain RUAG Cartridge or any other commercial CIP Approved cartridges loaded with bullets of any weight provided that the ammunition pressure does not exceed 3650 Bar when measured in a CIP standard barrel.
• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles converted to 7.62mm who are uncertain as to the proof status of the rifle should have it checked by a competent gunsmith.

• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles in any calibre are strongly advised not to use them in wet weather or without removing all traces of oil from action and chamber prior to shooting.

• Enfield No 4 rifles which are fitted with a barrel which has a throat diameter less than 0.3085” must not be used on Bisley Ranges.
• Ammunition loaded with bullets of any weight which are of greater diameter than the throat diameter of the barrel must not under any circumstances be used on Bisley Ranges in any rifle or barrel of any manufacture.

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=19202


The article is about shooting in the rain :

"Sporting Rifle"
March 2010 Edition page 85

Water in your action or on your ammunition will cause elevated and variable chamber pressures. At best this will mean erratic elevation, at worst a stretched action. Lee Enfield actions are notorious for this. A No4 shooting 7.62 ammunition is already doing a job a little beyond its design parameters.
This coupled with questionable gunsmithing and significantly undersized bores when the rifle was 'converted' from .303 gives a poor starting point in the safety stakes. Add to that an action full of rain and wet ammunition and you may be heading towards disaster.

Given that you will be limited to 40 K psia cartridges, case life will be awful due to case stretching, and not shooting in the rain, I would not recommend the Lee Enfield as an F Class action.

 

[Jenrick]

Mine's a No. 4 Mk 1* and I plan on using .303 British in it rather then. 308 (as noted in the OP). I'm not particularly worried about the strength of the action, in regards to it's ability to handle .303 British.

I hadn't considered the issues with a two piece stock, but I think that if a synthetic stock is used (and there are several to choose from) it shouldn't be an issue.

-Jenrick

 

[Slamfire]

Still, don't fire it in the rain, regardless of caliber.

• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles in any calibre are strongly advised not to use them in wet weather or without removing all traces of oil from action and chamber prior to shooting.

 

[Jenrick]

Well to be honest I think that admonition applies to all rifle owners regardless of type and caliber for maximum safety.

-Jenrick

 

[bigedp51]

SlamFire1

Gee I guess I need to read more about WWI and WWII and the parts where the British and Commonwealth Nations stopped fighting because it was raining and their Enfield rifles wouldn't get wet.

In over 15 years of collecting the Enfield rifle that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard you say.

Now think about it SlamFire1 they used an oiled proof cartridge to proof test the Enfield rifle. And you are a case greaser telling the people in this forum you can't fire an Enfield in the rain, now how dumb is that.

If you had read the whole article you would have read the part about the tighter than normal new barrels they were using and the higher than normal breach pressures. And better yet repeat that face the face to the British Enfield shooter Thunderbox and watch him disagree with you.
Ever hear about the jungles of New Guinea, and the Kokoda track over the Owen Stanley Range, the rain and mud and the Australians defeating the Japanese Army in battle for the first time in WWII. (it was before Guadalcanal)













The following is from a Australian manual printed in 1946 and doesn't contain any myths or bovine scat from our case greaser SlamFire1.

The effect below is caused by double the bolt thrust caused by the case NOT gripping the chamber walls when fired, and it will effect ANY rifle and can cause damage to any rifle.

 

[Jenrick]

So enough about the action strength.

Has anyone built a rifle using an SMLE action for long range shooting, specifically in .303 British?

-Jenrick

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Why so set on a .303? Good ammunition for it is expensive, on par with other cartridges that are much better suited to long range shooting and have components more readily available. There is most likely a reason there aren't very many, if any long range .303 SMLE action rifles

 

[Slamfire]

I am quoting the British NRA. If the Brits are not the experts on the Lee Enfield actions, then who is?

They advise not to shoot Lee Enfields of any caliber in the rain.

It is a weak action that has not improved with age.

• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles in any calibre are strongly advised not to use them in wet weather or without removing all traces of oil from action and chamber prior to shooting.

 

[bigedp51]

Lets see did the American NRA tell us to never shoot a 03 Springfield, a M1 Garand or a M14 in the rain....................Hell No

Military rifles go through trials testing in the rain, mud and snow and are built at least twice as strong as need be.

BUT this doesn't mean the shooter doesn't know what the effects of a wet chamber and ammo will have on his POI.

 

[bigedp51]

Jenrick

You do not want to build a target rifle from a No.1 SMLE action, the SMLE action flexes more than a rifle with front locking lugs. The flexing had to be compensated for with the No.1 SMLE and even the No.4 Mk.1 flexed differently than the No.4 Mk.1* (bolt release cut outs were located in different locations)

1. You have a two piece stock with only one bedding screw, which makes proper bedding critical. And a receiver that flexes MORE than a Mauser type action with forward locking lugs. And remember the LONG Enfield bolt lug is on the SHORT side of the action witch allows the action to flex. (more steel on the left side action than the right side)

My Enfield rifles are a favorite of mine, BUT they are battle rifles and not target rifles. My cheap $300.00 Stevens 200 .223 will out shoot any of my enfield rifles.

 

[throdgrain]

Wow we cant shoot SMLE in the rain??

I knew my granddad fought in the desert for a reason!

 

[Jenrick]

Cal-gun Fan: The main reason I'm contemplating a long range rifle in .303 is it's different. Additionally a donor barreled action can be purchased for less then a couple boxes of match .308 ammo. Also because I already reload .303 British and have plenty of components for it. Beyond that it's a bullet of decent weight, at a good velocity that has a reputation for accuracy back in the day.

bigedp51: Thank you, those are good technical points I hadn't considered.

-Jenrick

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Jenrick-

I admire what you want to do. I want to build a bench gun from a Savage 110 action and chamber it for 8mm Mauser, but the round isn't great for that task. I like to strive to be different as well. If you can get it to work, more power to you.

I may still build an 8mm bench gun some day. When I'm able to reload.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.303british.com/id35.html check this for some thought

 

[Jim Watson]

Unfortunately lost in The Incident, I had a 1970s article about the British practice of "shooting wet." The idea was, that if you wanted to shoot in GB, you had shoot in the rain and keeping rifle and ammunition dry just was not practicable. So some shooters got in the habit of intentionally wetting their ammunition so their clear day zero would be the same as their rainy day zero. There was a great deal of alarm over the increase in bolt thrust, as expressed here. But testing and analysis showed that there was not a great risk of damage to the guns.

Either way, I would not let fears of such things keep me from setting up a .303 fun gun.
I would not expect much out of it, either. Bear in mind that US F Class is shooting at a one MOA ten ring and the .303 would fall in F-open versus all manner of sophisticated 6.5 and 7mm hotshots.

 

[303tom]

I got this one..............

 

[35 Whelen]

Jenrick, when I saw your original post I fully expected the naysayers to chime in and I wasn't disappointed. Why is it you ask for people with experience with the subject, yet you get answers from people who either have no idea, or cut and paste B.S. from who knows where.

I WILL say that though I've owned several No.4's and still have a Savage, I have no firsthand experience with the type project you want to undertake. However, I greatly admire your desire to be something other than a sheep following the flock.

Let me make a couple of suggestions: First, leave the "general" type forums such as The High Road and check more specialized ones. I'd go first to the Surplus Rifle Forum Lee Enfield Forum. "Tikirocker", an Aussie is the Moderator and is a rabid Enfield shooter and expert. He should be able to point you in the right direction.

Then you might check out the Cast Boolit website where you'll want to look up a New Zealander who goes by "303 Guy". He too knows LOTS about Enfields.

Good luck, ignore the worrisome old women types, and keep us posted!

35W

 

[bigedp51]

Neither Tikirocker the moderator, 303 Guy or 35 Whelen are what I would call an Enfield expert, the only claim to fame Tikirocker has is he volunteered to be a moderator in an Enfield forum, and 303 Guy just happens to shoot cast bullets out of an Enfield rifle. If 35 Whelen is impressed by these two above then he is just showing his lack of Enfield knowledge on this subject.

If your looking for Enfield experts go to http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72, they have Peter Laidler the senior British armourer who actually worked on the Enfield rifle and wrote a book on the subject, "PLUS" Enfield shooters who still compete at Bisley with their Enfield rifles.

And 35 Whelen, 95% of all Enfield books and manuals you see on the internet today were supplied and donated by me and I also collected the Enfield rifle for over 15 years and I'm not an expert. And I also do not remember seeing your name in any Enfield forum I was ever in educating anyone, so how about leaving your ego at the door before writing your postings.

And by the way Tikirocker's idea of bedding an Enfield rifle with credit cards and beer can shims was called an abortion by Peter Laidler. (a real British Enfield armourer)

 

[bigedp51]

Jenrick

If you want to learn about the Enfield rifle and long range shooting then I suggest reading these two books.

The Jim Sweet's 1946 book covers all facets of long range shooting and also contains the "Black Arts of Enfield Bedding" for the No.1 rifle.



More History, maintenance and bedding information from Ian Skennerton a well known Enfield expert.

 

[M1key]

Number of years back there was a write-up in The American Rifleman (I believe) about a fellow who had re-chambered one successfully to '54Russian. They have the same bore diameter apparently. Very accurate, too.

SC

 

[.45Guy]

Instead of an SMLE, why not a 1905 Ross action? If you look long enough you can find one cheap.

 

[35 Whelen]

And 35 Whelen, 95% of all Enfield books and manuals you see on the internet today were supplied and donated by me and I also collected the Enfield rifle for over 15 years and I'm not an expert.

I never said or insinuated I was or am an expert. I offered NO advice with regards to his project; only suggestions where he might find advice better than the local bloviating that's so prominent on this forum. You've shot someone down and attracted attention to yourself, so move on now and bask in your glory.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go scan a bunch of book covers so I too can pose as an authority on some subject and everyone will like me.

35W