Building bolt gun from scratch: questions

[JeeperCreeper]

It's early 2018 and the AR market is the way to go for building cheap and easy long guns. But after some builds and working on friend's Black Rifles, I'm kind of sick of them. I really wanna build something cool and useful. I'm looking at a nice "custom-ish" bolt gun. I'm moderately handy and have just about any regular tool. I don't currently have machining equipment, though.

So my question is, what is the easiest and most cost effective receiver to build off of in today's market? I figure the likely answers will be Mauser, Remington, and Savage... with an honorable mention to Howa.

From my research, I'm assuming the cheapest way is to buy a donor rifle and strip it since the cost of stripped or barreled receivers are actually more pricey than the original gun. I also really like idea of the Shaw Mk custom rifle builder online, but I am really wanting to try it myself. Or at least most of it with only limited help from a gunsmith.

My ideas for a rifle are a general hunting rifle... either a "brush" type gun in .30-06 or .35 whelen with a 18-20" bbl and irons, or a mountain long range rifle in .243/6.5CM/.25-06. I guess it depends on what action I start out with.

Edit: I have a decent understanding of "how" this will need done, I plan on buying tools as I go from specific vices, go/no-go gauges, etc etc. It will all be checked out by a real gunsmith: I'm not trying to Bubba a gun but I also want to branch out. I am willing to take any new advice, also.

 

[farmerboy78]

Need the savage action [long or short], order a fully chambered savage predict barrel, have chamber gauges and you'e set if you have the tools. The barrel nut makes it simple

 

[z7]

if your budget allows and you want the "custom feel" check out the American Rifle Company's nucleus action
https://www.americanrifle.com/produ...n-26-with-deposit-425-non-refundable-deposit/
I have one of their mausingfield actions and i could not be happier

if you want to do a savage barrel nut style barrel install, consider this device/barrel nut system.
https://www.americanrifle.com/product/barloc-barrel-quick-change-device-for-1-063-x-20tpi-thread/

it is new this year and allows you to install and properly load the threads on a barrel using only an allen wrench. This requires no vice or action wrench, just an allen wrench. for me it is very appealing and I believe my next bolt action rifle will use the barloc system. it actually saves money if you don't have a vice or action wrench yet.

good luck and share what you end up with

 

[LoonWulf]

Easiest is and cheapest is a savage, the only "special" tool you need is a barrel nut wrench.

You can get profiled and finished chambered custom barrels in nearly any caliber for 200+, and stock barrels for as low as 100 sometimes. Pretty much everyone who makes a stock makes one for savage. If your going traditional wood, and are ok with final shaping and finishing (8-10hrs for a novice like me), than i like Richards Microfits. Fully fitted and finished, Boyds or Stockys. Synthetics run the gambit.

If I were building another savage, id go with a floor plate, or an aftermarket box mag, depending on application.

 

[adcoch1]

If what you want for caliber, cartridge, barrel profile and twist, barrel length etc can be purchased for your budget, just buy that rifle or barreled action. Then you're a stock and a sight system from done. Otherwise a savage or remage setup is your best option. Great triggers are available for both, as well as affordable stocks and chassis, sight systems, magazines, etc. Howa makes some really good stuff too, but for my next buuld I'm going Savage in 35 whelen...

 

[WestKentucky]

I looked at this a few years ago when I decided to do a build on my rem 700. Seems the savage is about the only bolt rifle action that can be manipulated with a fairly standard tool set. I still want to go feet first into a 277weatherby but its just not going to happen anytime soon because of cost. I am still looking for a deal on a beater 110 to snag and build into something nice.

 

[someguy2800]

Definitely a savage or a remington 700 with a remage barrel nut. It's easy and fun. I love building stuff but it's much less fun if you have to pay other people to work on it. Best thing about these is if you get tired of it or your needs change in a couple years you can rebarrel it into something different. My savage is on it's 5th barrel.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

So I'm thinking Rem700 if I do the Remage barrel nut. Savage if not.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Definitely a savage or a remington 700 with a remage barrel nut. It's easy and fun. I love building stuff but it's much less fun if you have to pay other people to work on it. Best thing about these is if you get tired of it or your needs change in a couple years you can rebarrel it into something different. My savage is on it's 5th barrel.

If I use the remage barrel nut, will that mess up the dimensions for installing a stock? I found a Bell and Carlson I like for a good price that fits either the savage or Remington

 

[adcoch1]

You will have to inlet a rem 700 stock if you add a barrel nut, although I believe some aftermarket stock manufacturers are marketing stocks with this already done. Just have to read the descriptions really close, or better yet, email the stock company and ask about your specific stock you want.

 

[ess45]

If I use the remage barrel nut, will that mess up the dimensions for installing a stock? I found a Bell and Carlson I like for a good price that fits either the savage or Remington

No. The diameter of the barrel nut is the same as the diameter of the shoulder of the standard barrel. The thickness of the recoil lug will however depend on the stock, but a standard thickness will always fit. Also note what barrel contour the stock can fit.

If you do not like the look of the barrel nut, you can use a short chambered barrel.

 

[BigBore44]

BE
SURE
TO
DRINK
YOUR
.........
OVALTINE?

 

[Skylerbone]

If funds were truly not an issue...I have 3 kids, about to Brady Bunch into 6...I would build from a custom action with a target grade barrel. Noting my above real world predicament means doing so might mean a multi-year project which never sits well with the “can you really afford this” part of the brain.

These days the practical side of me is contemplating which of a number of off-the-shelf rifles will easily satisfy my wants while complimenting my modest budget. The biggest plus to so many of these sub-$1k, sub-MOA boomsticks is the coin they leave for better glass, more ammo, range fees, or, dare I speak it; the family budget.

Currently leading the pack for my consideration are the Sauer 100 XT and the Tikka T3 Compact Tactical, both worth considering for practical shooting/hunting and available in a fair number of calibers.

If, after the dust settles and you’ve bought the missus a nice pair of diamond earrings, you have cash left and a hankering to work on things I’d recommend a Manson manual crown kit or perhaps Wilson chamber dies and an arbor press. Having a portable reloading set up for the range or the ability to accurize every rifle I have is far more useful to me than having 1 expensive rifle which may shoot lights out after load development. Just picture all the crowns you’ll be cutting and the before/after targets.

 

[boom boom]

The Savage and Remington give you the most options and excellent accuracy for the money. Just check out gunparts by make and model at Midway USA or Brownells if you don't believe me. Wide variety of stocks, action lengths, triggers, bling, etc. available for them although Savage's accu-trigger is usually good enough for most. Howa, if you buy one of their barrelled actions is easier still to build leaving mainly the stock fitting but you have fewer options on bling and stocks.

The good ole Mauser 98 (with a milsurp or 1950's action) is simply not as easy to build an accurate rifle that shoots under 1 MOA nor is it as easy as the Savage design to change cartridge families. Mauser 98's bolt is one piece and thus bolt head alterations must be made carefully for different cartridge family heads. Improperly done, it may affect the bolt's heat treatment, functioning of the rifle like feeding and ejection, etc. A Mauser 98 will also be heavier for the most part than the Savage or Remington. I am ignoring those subvariants specifically designed for sporter use such as the Dumoulin or Parker-Hale as I have seen them in books or online but never worked with them nor seen them in person.

However, if you plan to bang the rifle around and mistreat it, and are willing to accept pedestrian accuracy 1.5-3 MOA, I would take the Mauser 98 (small ring Mausers are a different kettle of fish) over the others. Mauser 98's were designed to function under war's horrendous conditions with subpar ammunition, dirt, etc. Stellar accuracy was a tradeoff that Peter Mauser was willing to give up in return for reliable functioning and ease of manufacturing/user friendliness. The military Springfield 1903 action and the P14/1917 U.S. Rifle can be as accurate as their parent but have their own peculiarities and even less options for sporterizing today than the 98.

Don't get me wrong, a Mauser 98 can be accurate if quite a bit of work it done and can even be as accurate as modern designs depending on how much money and time you have. However, it was never designed as a benchrest rifle and people expecting it to be are due for frustration. A good gunsmith/machinist can make a Mauser sing but those are getting hard to come by.

I have a mess of Mausers and their offspring because I like them and their practical accuracy along with their history is good enough for me. With a modern cheap .308 barrel from Brownells and a 1943 Oberndorf k98 receiver, good ammunition, I can get about 1.8-2 MOA from the bench which for me is good enough. I am familiar with the design and comfortable with the mauser 98 design limits. That being said, if I wanted a bragging rifle on accuracy, modern design, etc. and a decent price, I would buy a Savage or perhaps a Howa. I would only buy a Remington action that someone like PTG blueprinted as buying a complete rifle with stock and barrel to then redo can waste money better spent on upgrades.

 

[MachIVshooter]

There's a good reason that virtually all of the PRS stuff is Remington 700 based. It's the AR of the bolt gun world, excellent stock accuracy with potential well beyond production stuff, and able to be built any way you like with huge aftermarket support.

Of the high end barrels I thread and chamber, virtually all of them are going onto Remington 700 receivers or top tier custom receivers based on the 700.

 

[LoonWulf]

There's a good reason that virtually all of the PRS stuff is Remington 700 based. It's the AR of the bolt gun world, excellent stock accuracy with potential well beyond production stuff, and able to be built any way you like with huge aftermarket support.

Of the high end barrels I thread and chamber, virtually all of them are going onto Remington 700 receivers or top tier custom receivers based on the 700.

Theres certainly something to be said for staying with the pack when it comes to performance/cost ratio.

I like the idea of the remage systems (cause i like the 700), but whats the practical advantage over a savage (if you dont already have the rifle/action), besides the 700 reciever having a prettier butt?


Im considering trying to find a cheap 700 or just an action (which will take me a while) to build into a new 7mm.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Theres certainly something to be said for staying with the pack when it comes to performance/cost ratio.

I like the idea of the remage systems (cause i like the 700), but whats the practical advantage over a savage (if you dont already have the rifle/action), besides the 700 reciever having a prettier butt?


Im considering trying to find a cheap 700 or just an action (which will take me a while) to build into a new 7mm.

Many moons ago, the Remington 700 and it's 40x cousin were the most accurate rifles box stock. That reputation created a following among the precision crowd, which resulted in aftermarket support orders of magnitude better than the competition, and also a lot more R&D and general knowledge on further accurizing them. Today, an off-the-shelf 700 sporter probably doesn't shoot any better on average than a Savage, Howa, Browning, etc., but the cumulative knowledge on accurizing and myriad options for upgrade parts still leaves them ahead of the pack. If you buy a Browning X-Bolt, you can replace parts with brands like, well.........Browning. The M700, on the other hand, like a Glock, AR or 1911, can be assembled without a single actual Remington piece, and to a level of quality exceeding any production M700 rifle, even surpassing the that of legendary 40x.

The Savage is perhaps more like the CZ-75; decently supported, fair amount of options, but nothing like the 1911.

Personally I'd never do a Remage because I think the barrel nuts are hideous, and also because I can better ensure the breech face being perfectly square to the receiver and bolt with a solid shoulder machined into the barrel than with a nut where all those stacking tolerances can introduce error. Same reason I machine the face of a barrel shoulder to the thread tenon while the thing is still chucked up and indicated rather than simply installing the shoulder piece with a finished face. But the Remage does seem to work fairly well for most people.

 

[Legionnaire]

I am with you completely. I have wanted to assemble my own bolt action for some time and have been drawn to the "Remage" option. I am fairly handy, but am not a machinist; I can't build a rifle the way a custom builder would, but I think I can assemble parts. As others have noted, there are so many aftermarket options for Remington actions (triggers, bottom metal/magazines, stocks, etc.) that I favor the Remingtons.

I am not building from scratch though. Rather, I took one of my current Model Seven's--a .243 that I bought in youth configuration some years ago--down to a local rifle builder. He is pulling the factory barrel and doing some basic truing: squaring the face of the action and the bolt and lapping the lugs. I have on order a new McGowen "Remage" barrel, recoil lug, and barrel nut. Already possess a nice H.S. Precision sporter stock and a Timney trigger ready for assembly. It'll be several weeks before all the parts are here, and then I'll have to rent a set of headspace gauges as I can't find any for purchase in .243 Ackley Improved. My objective is a relatively lightweight all-purpose hunting rig in a less-than-common cartridge. If it all goes together as planned, I may decide to buy a virgin action for another build.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

That's kinda where I am. My go-to rifle is a rem700 that will NOT be a donor, and an old Mauser sported that could be a donor as its in 30-06 and I'd want it to be in 25-06, 270, 30-06, 35 Whelen so it would not involve too much (relative) work.

But... If the remage barrel nut turns a Remington Action into a Savage... What would be the downside of starting with a Savage action? I'm not looking to have a crazy bench rest gun, just something to call my own. And savage still has plenty of aftermarket even if Remington is king.

If I'm assembling on a balling-on-a-big-budget-boomstick, would starting with a savage axis as a donor be a bad idea? I can swap barrels, stocks, triggers just the same as a 10/110 action.

 

[rbernie]

For mechanically-inclined folk that lack a lathe, the Savage is a good option. I've had good luck using Northland lugs/barrel nuts to maximize the prospect of getting everything squared, and the floating bolt head of the Savage does seem to allow reasonable accuracy in the absence of a properly trued action.

 

[Legionnaire]

You won't get an argument against Savage from me. The trigger would have to go, though; I don't like the feel of the Accu-trigger. That's just me, though. YMMV.

Edit: Of course, the Axis doesn't have an Accu-trigger ...

 

[someguy2800]

The advantage I see in a savage is that they come setup with a barrel nut from the factory and there are more options for aftermarket prefit barrels than a remage. They also have a better trigger stock than a remington does but many people don't like either and will replace them. If you don't like the accutrigger blade you can just remove it. The trigger works just fine without the blade. That gives you a really good target trigger for free. The savage also has a floating bolt head that one can argue does not require truing. From the smiths I have talked to the average savage is much better machined than the average new production 700 in that the barrel threads in the receiver and scope base holes are always straight and the bolt heads and lugs don't usually require any truing.

The disadvantage to a savage is they are ugly and clunky and I don't think they are as smooth as a 700 is and the finish is not as nice. The safety is also in the wrong spot in my opinion. If it were me if you were building a target gun I would do a savage. For a hunting rifle I would do a 700 with remage barrel and an aftermarket trigger, just because I like the handling, looks, smoothness, and safety location of the 700 better.

Also an Axis is a totally different gun than a 10/110 is. Different receiver, bolt, and trigger. The barrels are interchangeable but thats it.

 

[rbernie]

I will not carry a rifle afield if the safety doesn’t lock the bolt handle. It doesn’t have to be a three position safety, but when fully engaged I very much want the bolt handle to be locked down and secured against inadvertent handling. Remington’s don’t do that. That’s one of the reasons that I turned to Savage in the first place, and accepted the fact that I would lose a little refinement in the process of getting something that -for me- was more functional.

This is a rifle that I finished putting together tonight, in fact - a 257 Roberts, using a 26” Shilen Select Match varmint contour barrel, SSS trigger, and Northland barrel lug/nut.

 

[LoonWulf]

thats a good solid looking rifle.

 

[bullzeye8]

I voted Savage as being the easiest and cheapest because it is with the barrel nut system. However, I wouldn't personally choose it as my base mostly because they don't really have any great aftermarket triggers for them. They also don't have near the amount of chassis options if you are looking for that. A Savage, aftermarket barrel, and boyds stock would make an easy and cheap custom build though.