Builiding Registered SBR from an AK "pistol"
- Thread starter Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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WardenWolf
member
You can also just have a stock adapter attached directly to it and have a Tromix or other stock installed on it. I'd personally prefer to have the rear receiver plate removed and a standard rear trunion installed. Then I can do whatever I want.
IMO, the downside to using a Draco is that the barrel is still 12" long. Add on a flash hider or brake, and that's really not much shorter at all than a standard AK. I wanted something more like a Krink, in the 8" to 10" range. So I took a standard parts kit and sent it to Pat McHenry (http://home.comcast.net/~restoreit1/Pistol_Conv.htm) to be cut down to 9.5 inches.
I don't really like the Romanian/Polish/German folding stocks - they're just not very comfortable to me. Same with the Hungarian ones. The Russian triangular side-folders are much better, but a bit expensive and more complex to install, what with the front latch. The best stock I could find was the Chinese Type 56-1. It has a solid lockup, installs with two basic rivets, and has a couple side plates for a nice cheek weld. Those stocks with AK trunnions are rare and expensive, but I found a cheap ($50) airgun (http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=b3) that comes with a perfect copy of the stock, right down to the indent for the AK safety lever. The airgun trunnion doesn't quite fit an AK receiver, so I took my Romanian rear trunnion, milled off the tang, and welded it to the airgun trunnion and hinge block.
The result? A shorty AK that's actually pretty short and still has a good folding stock. The only thing left is to find a Larue Irondot for it to make up for the really short sight radius.
My cost for the whole thing was $125 for the kit, $150 to have it cut down, $85 for the Nodak receiver, $30 for a Tapco semi FCG, $200 tax stamp, and $50 for the donor airgun. Total cost $440 plus tax stamp.
I don't really like the Romanian/Polish/German folding stocks - they're just not very comfortable to me. Same with the Hungarian ones. The Russian triangular side-folders are much better, but a bit expensive and more complex to install, what with the front latch. The best stock I could find was the Chinese Type 56-1. It has a solid lockup, installs with two basic rivets, and has a couple side plates for a nice cheek weld. Those stocks with AK trunnions are rare and expensive, but I found a cheap ($50) airgun (http://www.bghi.us/index.php?x=b3) that comes with a perfect copy of the stock, right down to the indent for the AK safety lever. The airgun trunnion doesn't quite fit an AK receiver, so I took my Romanian rear trunnion, milled off the tang, and welded it to the airgun trunnion and hinge block.
The result? A shorty AK that's actually pretty short and still has a good folding stock. The only thing left is to find a Larue Irondot for it to make up for the really short sight radius.
My cost for the whole thing was $125 for the kit, $150 to have it cut down, $85 for the Nodak receiver, $30 for a Tapco semi FCG, $200 tax stamp, and $50 for the donor airgun. Total cost $440 plus tax stamp.
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M2
Member
Here are some pics of what I was talking about, the underfold trunnion of the Draco I just bought...
Cheers! M2
Cheers! M2
mine was alittle more with afew add
LHRGunslinger
Member
mtt849 what kind of stock did you use?
camoman33935
Member
Sorry to bring up an old post but I have a quick question.
I know nalioth and others advise against drilling and tapping the rear of the reciever but there are numerous accounts of people having difficulties drilling through the rear of the reciever because the steel is so strong. Taking this into account, how well do you think mounting an ACE stock (no sidefolder mechanism) directly to the rear of the reciever would hold up? I know that it's only about 1/8 inch thick but if the steel is as strong as some others have stated would it really be that huge of a problem to mount a stock this way?
I know nalioth and others advise against drilling and tapping the rear of the reciever but there are numerous accounts of people having difficulties drilling through the rear of the reciever because the steel is so strong. Taking this into account, how well do you think mounting an ACE stock (no sidefolder mechanism) directly to the rear of the reciever would hold up? I know that it's only about 1/8 inch thick but if the steel is as strong as some others have stated would it really be that huge of a problem to mount a stock this way?
nalioth
Member
I am still of the opinion that mounting a stock directly to the back plate will lead to a failure.
If you're gonna use the back plate to mount a stock, you should find a steel shim to use on the inside (that the stock mount screws to) for extra strength.
If you're gonna use the back plate to mount a stock, you should find a steel shim to use on the inside (that the stock mount screws to) for extra strength.
Sam Cade
Member
Saw one today that had been TIG welded all around the edge of the plate. Looked pretty decent, When I get around to doing mine I think its the way I will go.
camoman33935
Member
So you're saying that I should put an extra chunk of steel in the rear of the reciever, drill and tap the reciever & the shim, and then I should be able to bolt a stock up to the rear of the reciever safely?
What about tapping the rear of the reciever and using lock nuts on the bolts on the inside of the reciever?
Also, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of failure are you referring to when you say that it could lead to one? I'm not questioning your knowledge of AK pattern firearms just looking for a little enlightenment.
nalioth
Member
I believe the back plate on an underfolder rear block is too thin to support the stresses of a fixed butt stock.camoman33935 said:
Some possibilities:
The screws can pull out.
The plate can bend.
The plate can crack.
Using a shim, and longer bolts should alleviate any of these issues, imho.
Bolts and lock nuts would still be attached to a thin and not-designed-for-load-bearing piece of steel.
It seems like several people are interested in a shorter-barrelled Draco - check out this from J&G Sales: (They also have 5.56x45 dracos)
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...tol-5-56x45-caliber-handgun-/products_id/5868
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...tol-5-56x45-caliber-handgun-/products_id/5867
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...tol-5-56x45-caliber-handgun-/products_id/5868
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...tol-5-56x45-caliber-handgun-/products_id/5867
nalioth
Member
Those shorties are Century mixmasters, from the description.Swami said:
The "5.56 dracos" are what were formerly imported as "Champion" pistols.
Guess Century is gonna start calling any AK pistol a "Draco". . .
camoman33935
Member
Oh ok I get what you're saying.
I noticed that you said the rear plate on an "underfolder rear block" was too thin. Are all Draco pistols imported with the underfolder block or just certain Draco models? If I was to get one with non-underfolder rear trunion would that alievate the issues that the underfolder trunion has or would they still exist?
Also, wouldn't the possibility of the bolts backing out be remedied by using some red Loctite on the bolts?
Thanks for your help Nalioth
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nalioth
Member
All of them. Some of the blocks are "virgin", in that they've never been finished and had a stock mounted.camoman33935 said:
The ones with the holes in them are recycled from the 'finished' pile or from retired military guns.
You won't find one with a different rear block unless you install a different rear block yourself.
Have you read this thread?
camoman33935
Member
Yes sir, I have but I can't retain all that I read for some reason lol.
Thank you for the info I really appreciate it.
Thank you for the info I really appreciate it.
alemonkey
Member
I've heard conflicting reports. J&G says they're assembled by Century, but other sources say they're all Romanian. Regardless, if they prove reliable I really want one. I'm seriously looking at making this my next SBR.
A guy on Arfcom added a Tapco AK74 brake and it looked really nice - scroll down almost to the bottom:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=98&t=136059&page=1
wally
Member
I know this is an old thread, but I'm about finished building a Draco-C into an SBR. They seem to build them with what parts they have -- mine was not a virgin underfolder block it is drilled for the underfolder but the receiver is not.
OTOH having just drilled and tapped mine to install a VZ52 side-folder, the rear block on mine is more like 3/8" thick than 1/8" and was a bear to tap. I don't see how it couldn't be strong enough. Mine looks like the one in M2's photo.
nalioth
Member
It's only thick at the top, where the recoil spring guide fits.wally said:
Below that, it's quite thin, and this is where most folks drill and tap for their ACE installations.
wally
Member
Mine is much thicker where the recoil spring guide fits than where I drilled. My hole location was pretty much set by the design of the VZ-58 side-folder, but I did manage to get it enough below the recoil guide tang so I could fit a jam nut in there, and I drilled and tapped at least 3/8" of metal. It was deep enough I have to get a longer bolt to have enough threads for the jam nut -- I bought what I have expecting as you've said about 1/8" of metal, finding 3/8" instead was nice, despite forcing an extra trip to the hardware store to finish the job.
MasterSergeantA
Member
The November 2010 issue of Small Arms Review had a detailed discussion of the Draco SBR conversion. If someone smarter than I (and that would be most anyone) has or can get a copy and scan a .pdf of it, it would help a number of people on this forum that have started similar threads.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, we ask that no one scan and post copyrighted material here. The vultures at Righthaven are taking a licking in court, but the issue is far from dead, and reposting an entire article is stretching "fair use" beyond all reason. Thanks for the suggestion that folks look that article up, but please follow our copyright rules:
Thanks!
MasterSergeantA
Member
Sorry, Sam. I didn't mean to infer that the article should be posted. If I had a copy that I could e-mail to folks asking the question, I would do that. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that stretches 'fair use' too far. Obviously, posting a copyrighted piece would be a bad thing.
For what it's worth, I've never seen a Romanian underfolder utilize those extra holes at the front of the block.
I've got Three WASR-10 UFs and an MD63 parts kit. None of them have rivets up front, two of them came with milled chinese style underfolding stocks, and the other two came with a cruder half milled half stamped stock with arms about as thick as the wire side folders.
My Hungarian Pre-89 underfolder does utilize those parts, as well as my Yugo, but they both use a stamped steel stock that locks at a different angle.
The pin you refer to is the top cover locking pin found only on Yugoslavian guns.
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