I bought some "lake city 62 gr .223" rounds from a local shop. I had my doubts but decided to purchase anyway. Briefly looked at the rounds thru the plastic bag they came in before i bought them. When I got home I opened the bag to count them to make sure i didnt get shorted. I noticed the rounds ranged from '02 to '12 manufacture date. Most had lake city markings, a few did not. Some had green tips, most did not. The casings were dirty like most lake city stuff is, however what worries me is the dings in the casings and the rips on the neck of the casings. What would you do with this ammo?
Bulk ammo from a local shop, mysterious dings and markings. Should I trust it?
- Thread starter hobgob
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Wow! Scary. That's a split neck. Do not fire it. It looks like you bought reloads. And from someone who didn't mind selling split necks. I wouldn't trust that stuff not to blow up my gun or leave a slug in the barrel.
Green paint looks fake too.
I'd pull a few apart to see what's inside. Reload the ones that can be salvaged.
Green paint looks fake too.
I'd pull a few apart to see what's inside. Reload the ones that can be salvaged.
smogmage
Member
The indentation shown is most likely caused by the ar-15 bolt head ramming into it during a double feed malfunction. Likely what they sold was a collection of odds and ends someone has collected over time, with some damaged missfeeds thrown in. It will still fire, however the pressure will definately be increased.
The SS109 bullets (with the green tips) look legit to me, they just have a lot of miles on them and the paint is wearing off. Looks like you got a mixed bag of reloaded/discarded ammo. I wouldn't take the chance on it. Sell this junk to somebody who reloads for their own personal use who will pull the bullets and reuse the primed cases.
nwilliams
Member
I would take it back to the shop. No gun shop should be selling ammo that's in that poor condition. Get a refund and wait for some better ammo to come around.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a violation for an FFL to sell ammo that is not made by a licensed manufactuer. This is exactly why Bubba's aren't allowed to sell reloads. Under the table from you buddy. Sure. From a store front FFL? No way.
I wonder if the ATF would be interested in seeing those pics and getting the stores name/address.
I wonder if the ATF would be interested in seeing those pics and getting the stores name/address.
@ joeschmoe, that was my worry too. I have bought green tips before and they are usually pretty dirty and sometimes a bit dinged, but not like this and usually they are all from the same batch and have legit markings. If i were to pull them apart, what would i look for? the powder loaded? I do have a reloading set up.
I am going to take this stuff back to the gunshop to see what they say. Will report back on thursday as to their response.
I had not heard of this gunshop until i drove passed it on the way to drop off some downed limbs for mulch(lots of wet snow here, had to get out the chainsaw). I had seen there logo on plenty of AR forums and thought I would stop in to see what they had. I guess I know better now.
I am going to take this stuff back to the gunshop to see what they say. Will report back on thursday as to their response.
I had not heard of this gunshop until i drove passed it on the way to drop off some downed limbs for mulch(lots of wet snow here, had to get out the chainsaw). I had seen there logo on plenty of AR forums and thought I would stop in to see what they had. I guess I know better now.
Ammo is pretty much no return to the store, everywhere. You have to take it up with the manufacturer. Which in this case is a guy named Bubba' loading in his mom's apartment. No store should be selling Bubba reloads. It's illegal and dangerous.
You can quickly tell if it's a real SS109 buy pulling one of the bullets and cutting through the middle to see if there is a steel penetrator inside.
I can't imagine what you were thinking when you bought it. In a plastic bag? He shouldn't have sold it, and you shouldn't have bought it.
You can try to complain, but anyone who was willing to sell that junk is not going to give you a refund. I would be stunned.
Chalk it up to experience. Get a Lee reloading kit and manual and learn to reuse the components. You will also be more knowledgeable as to why it obviously looks so wrong and dangerous.
You can quickly tell if it's a real SS109 buy pulling one of the bullets and cutting through the middle to see if there is a steel penetrator inside.
I can't imagine what you were thinking when you bought it. In a plastic bag? He shouldn't have sold it, and you shouldn't have bought it.
You can try to complain, but anyone who was willing to sell that junk is not going to give you a refund. I would be stunned.
Chalk it up to experience. Get a Lee reloading kit and manual and learn to reuse the components. You will also be more knowledgeable as to why it obviously looks so wrong and dangerous.
meanmrmustard
Member
Steel Horse Rider
Member
The dinged rounds wouldn't worry me too much but the split neck is certainly a kiss of death. You might show that one to them for comment. The last picture appears to me to just be a staked primer which is common with most military ammo.
VegasAR15
Member
I would at least go in and raise some hell with them and I would not be using that shop again.
ApacheCoTodd
member
You got someone's grab-bag-o-crap that had been laying around waiting for todays ridiculous prices.
ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE I WOULD ACCEPT THIS AMMO OR A SHOP'S POTENTIAL NO RETURNS POLICY ON THIS CRUD!!!
This sale is not only bad business policy but dangerous as well. Do not tolerate this.
ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE I WOULD ACCEPT THIS AMMO OR A SHOP'S POTENTIAL NO RETURNS POLICY ON THIS CRUD!!!
This sale is not only bad business policy but dangerous as well. Do not tolerate this.
nwilliams
Member
I've never heard this and I work at a gun shop.
The shop shouldn't resell this ammo but they should have the decency to at least give a refund on it and then dispose of it properly.
Then please explain to us what you were thinking when you bought this crap-in-a-bag. If you reload then you should have known why buying reloads from unknown people is dangerous and why this shouldn't have passed inspection when you first saw it. I could understand a newb with a new gun and no ammo getting taken, but a re-loader? You should have known better.
Sorry, I think you are equally to blame here, but we can give you a chance to redeem yourself if you can explain why you bought it.
While it may be against some policy or law to accept returned ammo, I do not think it is against any law for a gun store to buy ammo from you. If they pull the 'no returns on ammo' line tell them you think they should buy it from you and you will be a nice guy and not even mark it up over what they charged you.
Joeschmoe, to clarify, i do not reload. The reloading stuff is my fathers. I bought the ammo because it was affordable (which is hard to find these days) and wanted some stuff to plink around with without digging into my good ammo. I will take partial blame, i should have inspected the ammo closer before i bought it.
I am heading in to that gunshop tomorrow to try to get something back and to give the a piece of my mind. I would be suprised if i am the first one to bring this crap back to them.
I am heading in to that gunshop tomorrow to try to get something back and to give the a piece of my mind. I would be suprised if i am the first one to bring this crap back to them.
The offending party in case anyone was wondering http://www.utarms.com
Swampman
Old Fart
While that ammo certainly isn't all Lake City, it's not reloads either.
The primers are crimped and there's no sign of extractor or ejector marks on the case heads, the annealing marks on the cases are also still clearly visible.
While it's not reloads, it most definitely IS poorly stored crap ammo, it was also sold under false pretenses since the "IVI" and "TAA" headstamps are from Canada and Taiwan respectively.
With the way that case neck looks I don't think I'd even trust that ammo to break down for components. It's possible that at least some of that garbage was stored in an ammonia rich environment (think BARN) and the brass has been compromised. If the case neck on that round cracked like that without any particular stress, I don't think I'd trust the case heads under 62,000 PSI a few inches from my face.
"Caveat Emptor"...
The primers are crimped and there's no sign of extractor or ejector marks on the case heads, the annealing marks on the cases are also still clearly visible.
While it's not reloads, it most definitely IS poorly stored crap ammo, it was also sold under false pretenses since the "IVI" and "TAA" headstamps are from Canada and Taiwan respectively.
With the way that case neck looks I don't think I'd even trust that ammo to break down for components. It's possible that at least some of that garbage was stored in an ammonia rich environment (think BARN) and the brass has been compromised. If the case neck on that round cracked like that without any particular stress, I don't think I'd trust the case heads under 62,000 PSI a few inches from my face.
"Caveat Emptor"...
GCMkc
Member
Thanks for the heads up. I've done a little bit of business with these guys. You should definitely give them a piece of your mind when you go back up there. Last time I went in there they had outrageous prices on AR's, Glocks, and ammo. Has anything changed?
Took the ammo back this morning. I showed the guy at the counter the rounds and he gave me a full refund and said he would notify management about the problem.
@GCMkc, Ammo prices are about on par with what everyone else is charging these days. saw a sign for 1000 rnds of Tula 5.56 ammo for $695. Didnt bother to look at the prices of AR's since I am not in the market for one.
For what its worth, he did not really hesitate once i showed him the rounds. Took about 2 minutes for me to show him the dents and splitnecks and he agreed to give me my money back.
@GCMkc, Ammo prices are about on par with what everyone else is charging these days. saw a sign for 1000 rnds of Tula 5.56 ammo for $695. Didnt bother to look at the prices of AR's since I am not in the market for one.
For what its worth, he did not really hesitate once i showed him the rounds. Took about 2 minutes for me to show him the dents and splitnecks and he agreed to give me my money back.
Swampman
Old Fart
hobgob, if you don't mind me asking, what did you originally pay for that ammo?
The $695/1000 for Tula sounds almost obscene!
I saw a couple 1000 round cases of 55 gr. Tula .223 at a LGS for $399 and asked the owner (a friend), if he wore a mask when he sold it.
The worst I saw was 154 gr. Wolf sp 7.62x39 at $10.52 per 20 round box.
I will say that this was all small town, East Texas LGS pricing, I have no idea what prices are like in Dallas or Houston.
The $695/1000 for Tula sounds almost obscene!
I saw a couple 1000 round cases of 55 gr. Tula .223 at a LGS for $399 and asked the owner (a friend), if he wore a mask when he sold it.
The worst I saw was 154 gr. Wolf sp 7.62x39 at $10.52 per 20 round box.
I will say that this was all small town, East Texas LGS pricing, I have no idea what prices are like in Dallas or Houston.
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