Bullet casting questions?

[Wylie1]

I've just started to cast bullets for my muzzle loader being the expense of taylor mades so there is a bunch I have yet to learn.

Would there be any issues with using shoe polish for bullet lube? I tried the Liquid Alox for my .50 cal. sizing die and things went south pretty quickly. The sixth or seventh bullet out of two sizing sessions jammed up big time and I ended up ripping my press off my bench. I don't think that will happen again, it's now through bolted with drilled metal retaining plates for more surface area strength, the 3" by 1/4" lags just ended up working loose I guess.

When I swapped over to mink oil for sizing bullets everything went smooth as sink. The strangest thing is the mold these bullets were cast in is the LEE 500-360M that ennded up casting bullets with a .503 diameter and the sizing die is a .501 diameter size. I followed directions with everything and my lead isn't super hard although I did water drop them in very cold water. Just seems wrong to me, how about you?

My next tid bit I wasn't able to dig up much on the net about other than a few posts saying it is possible but with my experience so far sizing bullets I thought it best to say.

My other mould I have yet to try is a Lyman 515141 I've read casts to about .515 diameter so they would be pretty hard to stuff down my muzzle loader's barrel being I can feel a difference between .500 and .501 bullets.

Yeah you know where I'm going with this, would you think I'd be able to do a single step sizing from .512/.515 bullets to .501? I mean using a super slick lube like the mink oil?

I'm also looking for a cheap source for pure lead being I have 40 pounds of linotype now?

 

[whisler]

Linotype will give larger harder bullets than pure lead and water dropping will harden them even more. No wonder you had problems. If you try the larger bullet with linotype, you will break more than your bench. Get some soft lead.

 

[Wylie1]

Thanks for the reply!

Cool, that explains the over sized bullets for the mould size I was using although these shouldn't have had that much linotype in them, I think. The lead was given to me so I can't say the amount of linotype for sure though, one ingot of range lead, two ingots of 70/30 lead/lino is what was used.

From what I have read a good muzzle loader bullet would be a 50/50 linotype/pure lead.

I did end up with some slivers of lead when I cleaned the smoke pole but I shot a mix of store bought and hand made. I do know the store bought bullets were softer as I could tell by poking them with a pocket knife.

 

[blarby]

.14 sizing in one step is gonna be..........rough.

Good thing you installed lag bolts.

I accidentally got a .457 bullet in a .430 sizer once- wasn't fun. Granted, thats .27 difference- but given how hard that was, I wouldnt wanna do even half that more than once intentionally.

Lube only goes so far....

Having a .503 bullet drop out of a .500 mould from lee isn't unheard of.... Given that most calipers are off at least .001 anyway, thats about on par.

Good muzzleloader bullets are pure lead period.

You don't develop the pressures needed to even think about linotype.

You might add a little tin if you cant get the bullets to fill out in the mould right- but if you are water dropping them anyway, they are more than hard enough.

 

[tactikel]

For a true muzzleloader with patch and ball you want pure lead. Breech loaders benefit from harder lead 1:20 tin to lead. Linotype is for high velocity smokeless powder loads. Mine balls need pure lead for their skirts to expand and catch rifiling. Crisco is a great lube for patches and minie balls. Alox or any of several beeswax based lubes can work with bullets with grease grooves. Good luck!

 

[Rattus58]

I've just started to cast bullets for my muzzle loader being the expense of taylor mades so there is a bunch I have yet to learn.

Would there be any issues with using shoe polish for bullet lube? I tried the Liquid Alox for my .50 cal. sizing die and things went south pretty quickly. The sixth or seventh bullet out of two sizing sessions jammed up big time and I ended up ripping my press off my bench. I don't think that will happen again, it's now through bolted with drilled metal retaining plates for more surface area strength, the 3" by 1/4" lags just ended up working loose I guess.

When I swapped over to mink oil for sizing bullets everything went smooth as sink. The strangest thing is the mold these bullets were cast in is the LEE 500-360M that ennded up casting bullets with a .503 diameter and the sizing die is a .501 diameter size. I followed directions with everything and my lead isn't super hard although I did water drop them in very cold water. Just seems wrong to me, how about you?

My next tid bit I wasn't able to dig up much on the net about other than a few posts saying it is possible but with my experience so far sizing bullets I thought it best to say.

My other mould I have yet to try is a Lyman 515141 I've read casts to about .515 diameter so they would be pretty hard to stuff down my muzzle loader's barrel being I can feel a difference between .500 and .501 bullets.

Yeah you know where I'm going with this, would you think I'd be able to do a single step sizing from .512/.515 bullets to .501? I mean using a super slick lube like the mink oil?

I'm also looking for a cheap source for pure lead being I have 40 pounds of linotype now?

You can size anything with a big enough mallet. Of course your lube groove will be smeared with lead and if nose first you might wind up with flames...

I'm not sure I am following your post as well as I should though. You're casting a .503 bullet and sizing to .501... good... easy... doable... and my .500 mold from Lee actually casts a .498 bullet that can be bumped up with effort to .504 but is a candidate for a wrap.

If I had a .500 bore I'd love to have your "problem"...

 

[Patocazador]

Maybe you could swap the linotype for pure lead with a person who casts centerfire bullets?? Try the Trading Post section.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Linotype should even be used in the same sentence with muzzle loading projectiles.
Pure lead is the way to go.
If you're having trouble filling it out, add a little tin, but no lino.

 

[Wylie1]

Thank you for your posts!

I'm making a trade for pure lead, should be 6-7 Bhn or might be softer.

I'm shopping around a .510 diameter sizing die and have found at least with my calipers at the muzzle I'm reading .511. I haven't slugged the bore yet but I think I can tighten up my groups with a larger diameter projectile than I have been using. At least that is what I have read and the article mentioned less leading with tighter fitting projectiles as well. It may just be after some testing the Lee 500-360 gets hawked.

Looks like I am going to try a mix of Paraffin wax and shoe polish for my lube doing the pan method. It gets pretty warm here during the Elk hunt I use my muzzleloader most for so I'm going high temp Paraffin and cutting 20:1 or so with the shoe polish. I just like the smell and it's slicker then most other suggested wax cutters for lube.

Thanks folks! I hope to be getting a handle on this new to me bullet casting stuff real soon.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

If you can't find any pure lead, see if you can find some stick on wheel weights. They are nearly pure with a BHN around 6ish.

 

[Wylie1]

Thanks,
That's what I have read. I'm just about on my way to the post office now to send off my part of the trade I have agreed on now.

 

[Pops]

Try here : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

 

[Wylie1]

Thanks Pops!
In my running aroung the net looking for information I have run through a bunch of posts from that site.

Today has been an adventure in boolit lube. I went about it a little different taking a piece of aluminum foil and burning each ingredient to get an estimation of its flash point, see how quickly it melted and how ugly the spot looked after the ingredients burnt.

There is A product out there that is very prominent that will never enter the bore of anything I shoot!

Edit: I thought I might let you folks know where I'm at at this point to see if there might be some schooling I could use again.

Dead soft lead is on it's way. I traded my linotype for it and kept a small portion of linotype for myself.

I slugged my bore and got .511, I now have a .510 sizing die I plan to send the Lyman 515141 boolits through after being pan lubed with what I have just made up. Likely a smoky mix but should burn pretty clean. I have only been mixing small amounts to see how they act in different temperatures to guess if they will stay in the grooves of the bullets or not.

I'm pretty sure the best I have done so far is 6.5 grains of Kiwi natual shoe polish, 40 grains of canola oil and 80.5 grains of high temp paraphin wax.

I'm going to be milling a tip for my ramrod to fit the top of the 515141s as tight as I can. I'll be using a guide at the muzzle to keep the rod straight in the bore and aligned with the tip of the bullet.

Under the bullet will be a lubed wad and below that will be a dry wad each 1/8 inch thick. I was swabbing between shots and hope to end that foolishness with wads.

I went and got some FFG 777 being I realized I was shooting FFFG 777 and could have lost some accuracy because of it.

So that's where I'm at now.

 

[kituwa]

There is someone here on this forum that has a lube mix but i cant remember what his nic is,,maybe someone here knows who it is.But i made up a batch close to his and it works better than anything i have tried by far.It is bee wax,olive oil,and parafin.You can make it stiffer by adding more parafin for hot weather. My guns clean up super easy after shooting with this mix.My wife found 100% bees wax at a hair supply place and it was cheap.I use it on cap n ball revolvers mostly but it would work just as well for bullets with lube grooves or even on patch and ball in a rifle im sure.I made up a batch of lube pills that i did in a peace of pipe the right inside dia. and after it hardened i pussed it out and cut them to the thickness i wanted and then did what someone else suggested here and put the lube pills and my felt wads in a ziplock bag with some baby powder and shook it up so the pills and wads do not stick together and dont lube your hands up when loading them. This is a great forum,,i have learned a lot here and its well worth anyones time reading thru the posts.I have not been registered here a long time but i lurked for a good while before i did.Oh yea,,i found a store here where i live that has some ladies old fashion looking felt hats, the labels inside say 100% whool and they are $3.95, nice thick felt,maybe a tad over 1/8" thick.If anyone needs some just let me know and i can send you some.
Matt

 

[Wylie1]

Thanks Matt,
I have seen the recipe you have mentioned for bullet lube, I just haven't got into any bees wax yet. I'll likely be going through some more testing of the materials I have read about that are used for the lubes.

From what I understand the lubes can differ some from pistol to rifle but Im sure some are interchangeable too.

Being the whole process of the wad cutter which I'm likely to eventually make and acquiring the wool or other materials for wads I just bought a bunch of prefab dry wads.

As for the storage of the wads I plan to do something similar to the speed loaders for rifles until they go into my rifle speed loaders.

Most of the time I shot my muzzle loader I have speed loaders ready to go and will likely be storing my wads in something similar to a speed loader for rifles.

It may sound goofy to some but getting into the casting of bullets is all about the muzzle loader becoming my plinker. I enjoy the challenge more than what I consider can be tedious long distance shooting with high powered rifles.

As well a large slugged side arm may be in my future soon for hunting protection and home defense, but it will just be a dust collector most if the time if I do get one.

Thanks again Matt

 

[Wylie1]

Being it may help others I'll post up here again.

Single step sizing of the Lyman 515141 bullets has been no issue what so ever, packing the grooves with lube first likely helped but did get messy. Maybe the reports of .515 were from a different lot of molds.

I used as pure lead as I could get and these weigh out at 450 grains not 425.

I'm very happy with the accuracy as they at least match the Powerbelt 295s for consistency without any powder charge testing/work so they will likely be more accurate eventually.

I ended up bailing on the Bees wax being the low melting temp and went high temp paraffin with Avacodo oil being temps are pretty warm here now.

90 grains of 777 topped by a dry wool wad and than a soaked wad followed by the 515141 bullet work well for keeping the bore clean, no swabbing between shots is needed for a good number of shots.

The 90 grains of 777 and a 450 grain bullet sure tend to wack the shoulder pretty hard! Not much flesh between the skin and bones on me so not flinching calls for a little manning up before setting the powder off.

 

[J-Bar]

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